Wednesday, February 10, 2010

Did the Roman Catholic Religion gave false doctrines?

I grew up and was raised as a Roman Catholic, I went to catechism, was an alter-boy, and was considering going into the priesthood. It wasn't until I began to study the Bible, later in life, that I understood the errors that were within the church.





The errors below are NOT held by every Roman Catholic (I even know a priest that rejects the office of the pope), however they are the offical position of the church.





Some of their doctrial problems have been:





1) Faith plus works


2) Indulgences


3) Holding tradition over the Word of God


4) The Infallibility of the Pope


5) Purgatory


6) The Confessional


7) Peter as the first Pope


8) The office of the Papacy


9) The Mass


10) Pictures of God


11) Praying to Saints


12) Praying for the Dead


13) Worshipping the host


14) Added books the Bible


15) Mary being the mother of God, Mary being sinless


16) Forbidding Priest to marry


17) That they are the one true church


18) Sacradotalism


19) Baptismal Regeneration


20) Five man-made SacramentsDid the Roman Catholic Religion gave false doctrines?
So, do you cherry pick the doctrines you like? You seem to like the canon of Scripture. That's Catholic doctrine. Of course, you also seem to have a penchant for irrational and fundie interpretations of that same canon. It's rather inconsistent of you to consider an anthology of books from a source you claim teaches ';false doctrines'; inspired and try to criticize the group that collected and edited it.





It's amazing how inconsistent this sort of fundamentalism is.Did the Roman Catholic Religion gave false doctrines?
The Roman Catholic Church is not for everyone some don't believe in church at all--Some don't believe in Jesus. We are at a point where God will decide. It is not for us to judge unless you have perfect judgment and have never sinned and never changed your mind.
Show me a religion with no human tradition or man-made law and I will show you a physical Klein's bottle. Neither one can exist. Even the most fundamental of Christian denominations have man-made laws and traditions that are not in the bible.
Wow. you didn't get even one thing right. I suggest you actually read, from a Catholic source, what we believe, instead of relying on your chick tracts and anti-Catholic fundie preacher.





Geesh, some people's ignorance and arrogance is astounding.
1. Indulgences


2. Papal infallibility


3. Transubstantiation


4. Limbo


5. Purgatory


6. Mary worship


7. Idololatry


8. Salvation by works


9. Praying to saints


10. Celibate priests (against marriage)


11. Doctrine of the Nicolaitanes (heirarchical leadership)





and any of a number of other things. All of the reformers, without exception, identified the catholic ';church'; as the harlot of revelation and the pope as the antiChrist.





Tom
The Catholic Church has high points and low points ... but throughout its ride we firmly believe that the Holy Spirit protects the SACRAMENTS.





The Pope is only *Infallible* while sitting on St. Peter's set or when in agreement with the Cardinal of Bishops. Some doctrines have been changed to meet technological advancements, knowledge, and wisdom... but for the most part, the Church is slow to change as to give itself time to follow the Holy Sprit %26amp; ensure it meshes with Christ's teaching.





So, God (Trinity) knew we'd have the internet ... but how would God have addressed this in the Bible without even knowledge of electricity??? Part of the gift of the Church is to take Bible scholars and to apply modern life to the Bible. In a sense, bridging primitive ppl to advance ppl. Yes, this does involve textbooks outside of the Bible like the Catechism of the Catholic Church (written by the Cardinal of Bishops).





Underneath it all, the SACRAMENTS are the fundamentals of the Church.
Is it heaven and hell?


Is it new heavens and new earth?


Is it rapture or the heavenly for the new heavens are raised up John 6:39.40.44; or caught up 1Thes.4:15-17; to be with Jesus at his second coming?


Is the left behind and to be those [ for the new earth ], or resurrected by the heavenly Rev.3:12; as the earthly for the new earth or for hell? 1Cor.15:22-28,51-53;


Is it trinity or was Jesus the first creation created by God in the image of God?
House speaker says, ';I'm amazed how you telling me that I don't understand the Catholic religion. On the contrary, that you don't understand the Word of God and don't want to.';





Self-righteousness - the calling card of the misguided.





Let's take these claims one at a time. Shall we?








%26lt;%26lt;Calling the Priests ';Father'; is forbidden.%26gt;%26gt;





No it isn't:





The Elders of the Church are Called ';Fathers'; and the Faithful ';Children';


Matt. 23:9 - Jesus says, ';call no man father.'; But Protestants use this verse in an attempt to prove that it is wrong for Catholics to call priests ';father.'; This is an example of ';eisegesis'; (imposing one's views upon a passage) as opposed to ';exegesis'; (drawing out the meaning of the passage from its context). In this verse, Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of “fathers” and “rabbis” because they were hypocrites. Jesus warns us not to elevate anyone to the level of our heavenly Father.





Matt. 23:8 – in this teaching, Jesus also says not to call anyone teacher or rabbi as well. But don’t Protestants call their teachers “teacher?” What about this commandment of Jesus? When Protestants say “call no man father,” they must also argue that we cannot call any man teacher either.





Judges 17:10; 18:19 - priesthood and fatherhood have always been identified together. Fatherhood literally means ';communicating one's nature,'; and just as biological fathers communicate their nature to their children, so do spiritual fathers communicate the nature of God to us, their children, through (hopefully) teaching and example.





Eph. 3:14-15 - every family in heaven and on earth is named from the ';Father.'; We are fathers in the Father.





Acts 7:2; 22:1,1 John 2:13 - elders of the Church are called ';fathers.'; Therefore, we should ask the question, ';Why don't Protestants call their pastors ';father?';





1 Cor. 4:15 - Paul writes, ';I became your father in Christ Jesus.';





1 Cor. 4:17 - Paul calls Bishop Timothy a beloved and faithful ';child'; in the Lord.





2 Cor. 12:14 - Paul describes his role as parent over his ';children'; the Corinthians.





Phil. 2:22 - Paul calls Timothy's service to him as a son serves a ';father.';





1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders' ministry to the people like a father with his children.





1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 - Paul calls Timothy his true ';child'; in the faith and his son.





Titus 1:4 - Paul calls Titus his true ';child'; in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.





Philemon 10 - Paul says he has become the ';father'; of Onesimus.





Heb. 12:7,9 - emphasizes our earthly ';fathers.'; But these are not just biological but also spiritual (the priests of the Church).





1 Peter 5:13 - Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his ';son.';





1 John 2:1,13,14 - John calls the elders of the Church ';fathers.';





1 John 2:1,18,28; 3:18; 5:21; 3 John 4 - John calls members of the Church ';children.';





1 Macc. 2:65 - Mattathias the priest tells his sons that Simeon will be their ';father.';





The Lord, Mary, the Apostles and Others Refer to Spiritual Leaders as ';Fathers';


Matt. 3:9; Luke 3:8 - Jesus refers to Abraham as our ';father.';





Mark 11:10 - the people cried out blessed is the kingdom of our ';father'; David that is coming!





Luke 1:32 - God's angel says Jesus will be great and be given the throne of his ';father'; David.





Luke 1:55 - Mary says that He spoke to our ';fathers,'; to Abraham and to his posterity for ever.





Luke 1:73 - Zechariah says the oath which he swore to our ';father'; Abraham.





Luke 16:24,30 - Jesus, in His parable about the rich man, says our ';father'; Abraham.





John 4:12 - the Samaritan woman asks Jesus if He is greater than our ';father'; Jacob.





John 7:22 - Jesus refers to the ';fathers'; who gave the Jews the practice of circumcision.





John 8:56 - Jesus tells the Jews your ';Father'; Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day.





Acts 3:13,25; 5:30 - Peter teaches that the God of our ';fathers'; glorified His servant Jesus and raised Him to life.





Acts 4:25 - Peter and John pray to God and refer to our ';father'; David.





Acts 7:11-12, 15,19,38,44-45,51-52 - Stephen refers to our ';fathers'; in the faith.





Acts 7:32 - Stephen calls God the God of our ';fathers.';





Acts 13:17,32,36; 24:14; 26:6; 28:17,25 - Paul also refers to the God of our ';fathers'; in the faith.





Acts 22:3 - Paul says he was educated according to the strict law of our ';fathers.';





Acts 22:14 - Ananias says the God of our ';fathers.';





Rom. 4:1 - Paul calls Abraham our ';forefather.';





Rom. 4:16-17 - Paul says that Abraham is the ';father'; of us all and the ';father'; of many nations.





Rom. 9:10 - Paul calls Isaac, a spiritual leader, our ';forefather.';





1 Cor. 10:1 - Paul says that our ';fathers'; were all under the cloud, referring to the Old Testament spiritual leaders.





Gal. 1:14 - Paul says that he was zealous for the tradition of his ';fathers.';





2 Tim. 1:3 - Paul thanks God whom he serves with a clear conscience as did his ';fathers'; in faith.





Heb. 1:1 - the author says God spoke of old to our ';fathers.';





Heb. 3:9 - the Holy Spirit says that your ';fathers'; put me to the test.





Heb. 8:9 - God says not like the covenant that I made with their ';fathers.';





James 2:21 - James says was not our ';father'; Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac?





1 Peter 1:18 - Peter says you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your ';fathers.';





2 Peter 3:4 - Peter says ever since the ';fathers'; fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning.





Other Examples Where Jesus Uses the Word ';Father'; When Teaching


Matt. 15:4-5; 19:19 - Jesus uses ';father'; when He teaches God's commandment to ';Honor your father and your mother.';





Mark 7:10-12; Luke 18:20 - these are more examples of Jesus using ';father'; when teaching about honoring our fathers and mothers.





Eph. 6:2,4 - Paul also teaches to honor your ';father'; and mother, and says ';fathers,'; do not provoke your children.





Matt. 10:21; 35,37; Mark 13:12 - Jesus says ';father'; will deliver up his child in the last days.





Matt. 19:5; Mark 10:7,19 - Jesus says a man shall leave his ';father'; and mother and be joined to his wife. See also Eph. 5:31.





Matt. 19:29; Mark 10:29-30 - Jesus says whoever has left mother or ';father'; for His sake shall receive a hundredfold.





Matt. 21:31 - Jesus uses ';father'; when he teaches about the parable of the two sons and asks, ';who did the will of his ';father?';





Luke 6:23,26 - Jesus speaks about reward and punishment with reference to what their ';fathers'; did to the prophets.





Luke 11:11 - Jesus says what ';father'; among you will give his child a serpent when he asks for a fish.





Luke 11:47-48 - Jesus tells the lawyers they are witnesses to the deeds of their ';fathers.';





Luke 14:26 - Jesus says we must leave our ';fathers'; and mothers and come to him, or we cannot be His disciple.





Luke 15:12,17-18,20-22,27-29 - Jesus repeatedly uses ';father'; when teaching about the prodigal son.





Luke 16:27 - Jesus uses ';father'; when teaching about the rich man in purgatory.





John 6:49,58 - Jesus says your ';fathers'; ate the manna in the wilderness and died.








%26lt;%26lt;Praying repetitive words using Rosary beads is forbidden.%26gt;%26gt;





No it isn't.





Vain Repetition


Matt. 6:7 - Jesus teaches, ';do not heap up empty phrases'; in prayer. Protestants use this verse to criticize various Catholic forms of prayer which repeat phrases, such as litanies and the Rosary. But Jesus' focus in this instruction is on the ';vain,'; and not on the ';repetition.';





Matt. 26:44 - for example, Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again. It is not the repetition that is the issue. It's the vanity. God looks into our heart, not solely at our words.





Luke 18:13 - the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying ';God be merciful to me, a sinner.'; This repetitive prayer was pleasing to God because it was offered with a sincere and repentant heart.





Acts 10:2,4 - Cornelius prayed constantly to the Lord and his prayers ascended as a memorial before God.





Rom. 1:9 - Paul says that he always mentions the Romans in his prayers without ceasing.





Rom. 12:12 - Paul commands us to be constant in prayer. God looks at what is in our heart, not necessarily how we choose our words.





1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul commands us to pray constantly. Good repetition is different than vain repetition.





Rev. 4:8 - the angels pray day and night without cessation the same words ';Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.'; This is repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God.





Psalm 136 - in this Psalm, the phrase ';For His steadfast love endures forever'; is more repetitious than any Catholic prayer, and it is God's divine Word.





Dan. 3:35-66 - the phrase ';Bless the Lord'; is similarly offered repeatedly, and mirrors Catholic litanies.








%26lt;%26lt;Virgin Mary%26gt;%26gt;





Since you did not elaborate, I am assuming you take issue with the Catholic belief that Mary remains a Virgin.





Mary is Ever Virgin


Exodus 13:2,12 - Jesus is sometimes referred to as the ';first-born'; son of Mary. But ';first-born'; is a common Jewish expression meaning the first child to open the womb. It has nothing to do the mother having future children.





Exodus 34:20 - under the Mosaic law, the ';first-born'; son had to be sanctified. ';First-born'; status does not require a ';second'; born.





Ezek. 44:2 - Ezekiel prophesies that no man shall pass through the gate by which the Lord entered the world. This is a prophecy of Mary's perpetual virginity. Mary remained a virgin before, during and after the birth of Jesus.





Mark 6:3 - Jesus was always referred to as ';the'; son of Mary, not ';a'; son of Mary. Also ';brothers'; could have theoretically been Joseph's children from a former marriage that was dissolved by death. However, it is most likely, perhaps most certainly, that Joseph was a virgin, just as were Jesus and Mary. As such, they embodied the true Holy Family, fully consecrated to God.





Luke 1:31,34 - the angel tells Mary that you ';will'; conceive (using the future tense). Mary responds by saying, ';How shall this be?'; Mary's response demonstrates that she had taken a vow of lifelong virginity by having no intention to have relations with a man. If Mary did not take such a vow of lifelong virginity, her question would make no sense at all (for we can assume she knew how a child is conceived). She was a consecrated Temple virgin as was an acceptable custom of the times.





Luke 2:41-51 - in searching for Jesus and finding Him in the temple, there is never any mention of other siblings.





John 7:3-4; Mark 3:21 - we see that younger ';brothers'; were advising Jesus. But this would have been extremely disrespectful for devout Jews if these were Jesus' biological brothers.





John 19:26-27 - it would have been unthinkable for Jesus to commit the care of his mother to a friend if he had brothers.





John 19:25 - the following verses prove that James and Joseph are Jesus' cousins and not his brothers: Mary the wife of Clopas is the sister of the Virgin Mary.





Matt. 27:61, 28:1 - Matthew even refers to Mary the wife of Clopas as ';the other Mary.';





Matt. 27:56; Mark 15:47 - Mary the wife of Clopas is the mother of James and Joseph.





Mark 6:3 - James and Joseph are called the ';brothers'; of Jesus. So James and Joseph are Jesus' cousins.





Matt. 10:3 - James is also called the son of ';Alpheus.'; This does not disprove that James is the son of Clopas. The name Alpheus may be Aramaic for Clopas, or James took a Greek name like Saul (Paul), or Mary remarried a man named Alpheus.





Jesus' ';Brothers'; (adelphoi)) = Cousins or Kinsmen


Luke 1:36 - Elizabeth is Mary's kinswoman. Some Bibles translate kinswoman as ';cousin,'; but this is an improper translation because in Hebrew and Aramaic, there is no word for ';cousin.';





Luke 22:32 - Jesus tells Peter to strengthen his ';brethren.'; In this case, we clearly see Jesus using ';brethren'; to refer to the other apostles, not his biological brothers.





Acts 1:12-15 - the gathering of Jesus' ';brothers'; amounts to about 120. That is a lot of ';brothers.'; Brother means kinsmen in Hebrew.





Acts 7:26; 11:1; 13:15,38; 15:3,23,32; 28:17,21 - these are some of many other examples where ';brethren'; does not mean blood relations.





Rom. 9:3 - Paul uses ';brethren'; and ';kinsmen'; interchangeably. ';Brothers'; of Jesus does not prove Mary had other children.





Gen. 11:26-28 - Lot is Abraham's nephew (';anepsios';) / Gen. 13:8; 14:14,16 - Lot is still called Abraham's brother (adelphos';) . This proves that, although a Greek word for cousin is ';anepsios,'; Scripture also uses ';adelphos'; to describe a cousin.





Gen. 29:15 - Laban calls Jacob is ';brother'; even though Jacob is his nephew. Again, this proves that brother means kinsmen or cousin.





Deut. 23:7; 1 Chron. 15:5-18; Jer. 34:9; Neh. 5:7 -';brethren'; means kinsmen. Hebrew and Aramaic have no word for ';cousin.';





2 Sam. 1:26; 1 Kings 9:13, 20:32 - here we see that ';brethren'; can even be one who is unrelated (no bloodline), such as a friend.





2 Kings 10:13-14 - King Ahaziah's 42 ';brethren'; were really his kinsmen.





1 Chron. 23:21-22 - Eleazar's daughters married their ';brethren'; who were really their cousins.





Neh. 4:14; 5:1,5,8,10,14 - these are more examples of ';brothers'; meaning ';cousins'; or ';kinsmen.';





Tobit 5:11 - Tobit asks Azarias to identify himself and his people, but still calls him ';brother.';





Amos 1: 9 - brotherhood can also mean an ally (where there is no bloodline).








%26lt;%26lt;Latin Mass forbidden.%26gt;%26gt;





The Bible teaches Mass on Sunday, but does not specifically prefer one formula over another.





Isaiah 1:13 - God begins to reveal His displeasure with the Sabbath.





Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus' resurrection and appearances were on Sunday. This is because Sunday had now become the most important day in the life of the Church.





Acts 20:7 - this text shows the apostolic tradition of gathering together to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, the ';first day of the week.'; Luke documents the principle worship was on Sunday because this was one of the departures from the Jewish form of worship.





1 Cor. 16:2 - Paul instructs the Corinthians to make contributions to the churches ';on the first day of the week,'; which is Sunday. This is because the primary day of Christian worship is Sunday.





Col. 2:16-17 - Paul teaches that the Sabbath was only a shadow of what was fulfilled in Christ, and says ';let no one pass judgment any more over a Sabbath.';





2 Thess. 2:15 - we are to hold fast to apostolic tradition, whether it is oral or written. The 2,000 year-old tradition of the Church is that the apostles changed the Sabbath day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.





Heb. 4:8-9 - regarding the day of rest, if Joshua had given rest, God would not later speak of ';another day,'; which is Sunday, the new Sabbath. Sunday is the first day of the week and the first day of the new creation brought about by our Lord's resurrection, which was on Sunday.





Heb. 7:12 - when there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law as well. Because we have a new Priest and a new sacrifice, we also have a new day of worship, which is Sunday.





Rev 1:10 - John specifically points out that he witnesses the heavenly Eucharistic liturgy on Sunday, the Lord's day, the new day of rest in Christ.





Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - whatever the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. Since the resurrection, Mass has been principally celebrated on Sunday.








%26lt;%26lt;Worshipping idols, icons and images violates the 2nd commandment.%26gt;%26gt;





No it isn't.





Images and Statues


Deut. 4:15 - from this verse, Protestants say that since we saw ';no form'; of the Lord, we should not make graven images of Him.





Deut. 4:16 - of course, in early history Israel was forbidden to make images of God because God didn't yet reveal himself visibly ';in the form of any figure.';





Deut. 4:17-19 - hence, had the Israelites depicted God not yet revealed, they might be tempted to worship Him in the form of a beast, bird, reptile or fish, which was a common error of the times.





Exodus 3:2-3; Dan 7:9; Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32; Acts 2:3- later on, however, we see that God did reveal himself in visible form (as a dove, fire, etc).





Deut. 5:8 - God's commandment ';thou shall not make a graven image'; is entirely connected to the worship of false gods. God does not prohibit images to be used in worship, but He prohibits the images themselves to be worshiped.





Exodus 25:18-22; 26:1,31 - for example, God commands the making of the image of a golden cherubim. This heavenly image, of course, is not worshiped by the Israelites. Instead, the image disposes their minds to the supernatural and draws them to God.





Num. 21:8-9 - God also commands the making of the bronze serpent. The image of the bronze serpent is not an idol to be worshiped, but an article that lifts the mind to the supernatural.





I Kings 6:23-36; 7:27-39; 8:6-67 - Solomon's temple contains statues of cherubim and images of cherubim, oxen and lions. God did not condemn these images that were used in worship.





2 Kings 18:4 - it was only when the people began to worship the statue did they incur God's wrath, and the king destroyed it. The command prohibiting the use of graven images deals exclusively with the false worship of those images.





1 Chron. 28:18-19 - David gives Solomon the plan for the altar made of refined gold with a golden cherubim images. These images were used in the Jews' most solemn place of worship.





2 Chron. 3:7-14 - the house was lined with gold with elaborate cherubim carved in wood and overlaid with gold.





Ezek. 41:15 - Ezekiel describes graven images in the temple consisting of carved likenesses of cherubim. These are similar to the images of the angels and saints in many Catholic churches.





Col. 1:15 - the only image of God that Catholics worship is Jesus Christ, who is the ';image'; (Greek ';eikon';) of the invisible God.








%26lt;%26lt;Human tradition and man made doctrine is apostasy.%26gt;%26gt;





I take it you are questioning the Church's Sacred Oral Tradition...





The Word of God is Transferred Orally


Mark 13:31 - heaven and earth will pass away, but Jesus' Word will not pass away. But Jesus never says anything about His Word being entirely committed to a book. Also, it took 400 years to compile the Bible, and another 1,000 years to invent the printing press. How was the Word of God communicated? Orally, by the bishops of the Church, with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.





Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach the Gospel to every creature. But Jesus did not want this preaching to stop after the apostles died, and yet the Bible was not compiled until four centuries later. The word of God was transferred orally.





Mark 3:14; 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach (not write) the gospel to the world. Jesus gives no commandment to the apostles to write, and gives them no indication that the oral apostolic word he commanded them to communicate would later die in the fourth century. If Jesus wanted Christianity to be limited to a book (which would be finalized four centuries later), wouldn't He have said a word about it?





Luke 10:16 - He who hears you (not ';who reads your writings';), hears me. The oral word passes from Jesus to the apostles to their successors by the gracious gifts of the Holy Spirit. This succession has been preserved in the Holy Catholic Church.





Luke 24:47 - Jesus explains that repentance and forgiveness of sins must be preached (not written) in Christ's name to all nations. For Protestants to argue that the word of God is now limited to a book (subject to thousands of different interpretations) is to not only ignore Scripture, but introduce a radical theory about how God spreads His word which would have been unbelievable to the people at the time of Jesus.





Acts 2:3-4 - the Holy Spirit came to the apostles in the form of ';tongues'; of fire so that they would ';speak'; (not just write) the Word.





Acts 15:27 - Judas and Silas, successors to the apostles, were sent to bring God's infallible Word by ';word of mouth.';





Rom. 10:8 - the Word is near you, on your lips and in your heart, which is the word of faith which is preached (not just written).





Rom. 10:17 - faith comes by what is ';heard'; (not just read) which is the Word that is ';preached'; (not read). This word comes from the oral tradition of the apostles. Those in countries where the Scriptures are not available can still come to faith in Jesus Christ.





1 Cor. 15:1,11 - faith comes from what is ';preached'; (not read). For non-Catholics to argue that oral tradition once existed but exists no longer, they must prove this from Scripture. But no where does Scripture say oral tradition died with the apostles. To the contrary, Scripture says the oral word abides forever.





Gal. 1:11-12 - the Gospel which is ';preached'; (not read) to me is not a man's Gospel, but the Revelation of Jesus Christ.





Eph. 1:13 - hearing (not reading) the Word of truth is the gospel of our salvation. This is the living word in the Church's living tradition.





Col. 1:5 - of this you have ';heard'; (not read) before in the word of truth, the Gospel which has come to you.





1 Thess. 2:13 - the Word of God is what you have ';heard'; (not read). The orally communicated word of God lasts forever, and this word is preserved within the Church by the Holy Spirit.





2 Tim. 1:13 - oral communications are protected by the Spirit. They abide forever. Oral authority does not die with the apostles.





2 Tim. 4:2,6-7 - Paul, at the end of his life, charges Timothy to preach (not write) the Word. Oral teaching does not die with Paul.





Titus 1:3 - God's word is manifested ';through preaching'; (not writing). This ';preaching'; is the tradition that comes from the apostles.





1 Peter 1:25 - the Word of the Lord abides forever and that Word is the good news that was ';preached'; (not read) to you. Because the Word is preached by the apostles and it lasts forever, it must be preserved by the apostles' successors, or this could not be possible. Also, because the oral word abides forever, oral apostolic tradition could not have died in the fourth century with all teachings being committed to Scripture.





2 Peter 1:12, 15 - Peter says that he will leave a ';means to recall these things in mind.'; But since this was his last canonical epistle, this ';means to recall'; must therefore be the apostolic tradition and teaching authority of his office that he left behind.





2 John 1:12; 3 John 13 - John prefers to speak and not to write. Throughout history, the Word of God was always transferred orally and Jesus did not change this. To do so would have been a radical departure from the Judaic tradition.





Deut. 31:9-12 - Moses had the law read only every seven years. Was the word of God absent during the seven year interval? Of course not. The Word of God has always been given orally by God's appointed ones, and was never limited to Scripture.





Isa. 40:8 - the grass withers, the flower fades, but the Word of our God (not necessarily written) will stand forever.





Isa. 59:21 - Isaiah prophesies the promise of a living voice to hand on the Word of God to generations by mouth, not by a book. This is either a false prophecy, or it has been fulfilled by the Catholic Church.





Joel 1:3 - tell your children of the Word of the Lord, and they tell their children, and their children tell another generation.





Mal. 2:7 - the lips of a priest guard knowledge, and we should seek instruction from his mouth. Protestants want to argue all oral tradition was committed to Scripture? But no where does Scripture say this.





Learning through Oral Apostolic Tradition


Matt. 15:3 - Jesus condemns human traditions that void God's word. Some Protestants use this verse to condemn all tradition. But this verse has nothing to do with the tradition we must obey that was handed down to us from the apostles. (Here, the Pharisees, in their human tradition, gave goods to the temple to avoid taking care of their parents, and this voids God's law of honoring one's father and mother.)





Mark 7:9 - this is the same as Matt. 15:3 - there is a distinction between human tradition (that we should reject) and apostolic tradition (that we must accept).





Gal. 1:14; Col. 2:22 – Paul also writes about “the traditions of my fathers” and “human precepts and doctrines” which regarded the laws of Judaism. These traditions are no longer necessary.





Acts 2:42 - the members obeyed apostolic tradition (doctrine, prayers, and the breaking of bread). Their obedience was not to the Scriptures alone. Tradition (in Greek, ';paradosis';) means ';to hand on'; teaching.





Acts 20:7 - this verse gives us a glimpse of Christian worship on Sunday, but changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday is understood primarily from oral apostolic tradition.





John 17:20 - Jesus prays for all who believe in Him through the oral word of the apostles. Jesus protects oral apostolic teaching.





1 Cor. 11:2 - Paul commends the faithful for maintaining the apostolic tradition that they have received. The oral word is preserved and protected by the Spirit.





Eph. 4:20 – Paul refers the Ephesians to the oral tradition they previously received when he writes, “You did not so learn Christ!”





Phil. 4:9 - Paul says that what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do. This refers to learning from his preaching and example, which is apostolic tradition.





Col. 1:5-6 – of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel, which has come to you. This delivery of the faith refers to the oral tradition the Colossians had previously received from the ordained leaders of the Church. This oral tradition is called the gospel of truth.





1 Thess.1:5 – our gospel came to you not only in word, but in the power of the Holy Spirit. Paul is referring to the oral tradition which the Thessalonians had previously received. There is never any instruction to abandon these previous teachings; to the contrary, they are to be followed as the word of God.





1 Thess. 4:2 – Paul again refers the Thessalonians to the instructions they already had received, which is the oral apostolic tradition.





2 Thess. 2:5 – Paul yet again refers the Thessalonians to the previous teachings they received from Paul when he taught them orally. These oral teachings are no less significant than the written teachings.





2 Thess. 2:15 - Paul clearly commands us in this verse to obey oral apostolic tradition. He says stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, either by word of mouth or letter. This verse proves that for apostolic authority, oral and written communications are on par with each other. Protestants must find a verse that voids this commandment to obey oral tradition elsewhere in the Bible, or they are not abiding by the teachings of Scripture.





2 Thess. 2:15 - in fact, it was this apostolic tradition that allowed the Church to select the Bible canon (apostolicity was determined from tradition). Since all the apostles were deceased at the time the canon was decided, the Church had to rely on the apostolic tradition of their successors. Hence, the Bible is an apostolic tradition of the Catholic Church. This also proves that oral tradition did not cease with the death of the last apostle. Other examples of apostolic tradition include the teachings on the Blessed Trinity, the hypostatic union (Jesus had a divine and human nature in one person), the filioque (that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son), the assumption of Mary, and knowing that the Gospel of Matthew was written by Matthew.





2 Thess. 3:6 - Paul again commands the faithful to live in accord with the tradition that they received from the apostles.





2 Thess. 3:7 - Paul tells them they already know how to imitate the elders. He is referring them to the tradition they have learned by his oral preaching and example.





1 Tim. 6:20 - guard what has been ';entrusted'; to you. The word ';entrusted'; is ';paratheke'; which means a ';deposit.'; Oral tradition is part of what the Church has always called the Deposit of Faith.





2 Tim. 2:2 - Paul says what you have heard from me entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. This is ';tradition,'; or the handing on of apostolic teaching.





2 Tim. 3:14 - continue in what you have learned and believed knowing from whom you learned it (by oral tradition).





1 John 2:7 – John refers to the oral word his disciples have heard which is the old commandment that we love one another.





Examples of Jesus' and the Apostles' Reliance on Oral Tradition


Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy ';He shall be a Nazarene'; is oral tradition. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.





Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the oral tradition of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.





John 19:26; 20:2; 21:20,24 - knowing that the ';beloved disciple'; is John is inferred from Scripture, but is also largely oral tradition.





Acts 20:35 - Paul relies on the oral tradition of the apostles for this statement (';it is better to give than to receive';) of Jesus. It is not recorded in the Gospels.





1 Cor. 7:10 - Paul relies on the oral tradition of the apostles to give the charge of Jesus that a wife should not separate from her husband.





1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the oral tradition of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exodus 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.





Eph 5:14 - Paul relies on oral tradition to quote an early Christian hymn - ';awake O sleeper rise from the dead and Christ shall give you light.';





Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the oral tradition of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.





Jude 9 - Jude relies on the oral tradition of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.





Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the oral tradition of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.
Plenty! Among other things, the Roman Catholic Church introduced the pagan trinity into Christianity. The Church is also responsible for ';Christianizing'; pagan holidays, like Easter, Christmas, and Easter. The Church also introduced the unbiblical hellfire doctrine. The Church has disregarded Jesus' command not to call others by religious titles like ';Father.'; Other false doctrines include, the Transubstantiaton and purgatory.
Obviously yes.





Look at those un-biblical teachings from Catholic!





Baby Baptism


Limbo


Mortal and Venial Sin


Marriage is forbid to those priests and nuns


Pope


Pray to any Saints for help (Mary is included too.)


Purgatory


Religious war (not doctrine but Catholic is part of this war still)


Rosary


Seven Sacraments


Tradition


Tranbutation (sp)


Trinity


Virgin Mary remains virgin after Christ's birth





Many doctrine to list...
Brian


Get a new source, perhaps something Catholic? Try some Scott Hahn or Steve Ray, it may be eye-opening. If you believe in the Bible, do you know where it came from? There was no Bible for the first 300 years of the church...it was handed down through TRADITION (there's that word again!). Do you believe in Jesus? Do you honestly believe Jesus would start a church and not leave someone (the Pope?) in charge to help us understand it? That makes no sense. There is a reason that there was ONE Christian religion for 1500 years...check out James 2:14-17 to start with your claims. If you grew up Catholic, you obviously didn't have very good catechists! We will pray for your reversion!
YES!! That is why Martin Luther's nailing of that document to the church door started the Protestant Reformation.





Can't buy your way into to heaven
During which stage of it's developement?
Only God would know that for certain.
If you'd like to know what the Church teaches, here is a great website that addresses all of your questions: www.catholic.com





You brought up several different issues at one time, so the website above will do a better job of helping you out than I could.





God bless.

No comments:

Post a Comment