I haven't gone to church in 3 months. I stopped going because I can see that these ';pastors'; are a bunch of false prophets. They take bible passages waaaaaay out of context. My family wishes I would go to church, but I feel that I shoudln't anymore. I am 20 years old, and my personal spiritual walk with God has grown tremendously since I stopped going to church. (btw, i tried other churches...but they all seem fake and very emotion-led.) What do you guys think about today's ';christian'; church? What do you guys think about my decision on not attending a church? My salvation doesn't rest in the hands of my church attendence.Are today's Christian churches teaching fase doctrines, led by false prophets?
Matthew 6:33 ';But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
Mat 6:34 ';Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
your walk in the lord,my young friend,will have many valleys and mountains.just remember what path to stay on.your at the beginning of the cultivation in the vine[jesus].read[actually study] your bible daily...it will feed you and nourish your walk.
dont get discouraged about which physical place you fellowship at.it may change location even in the best of circumstances.
my prayers for you!
ephesians6:10-18....romans chapter 5
1John 2:27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.Are today's Christian churches teaching fase doctrines, led by false prophets?
Have you checked out all Christian churches? Have you given the LDS church a try?
I had given up on Chrisitianity - protestant and RCC - and then I found the LDS church.
If you want information - let me know. And if you didn't get the hint, I don't like today's ';Christian church';.
Religions were created to replace spiritual drug use in society, and to hide true enlightenment from the masses... which is psychedelic enlightenment, which is what the stories in the bible are mainly about. This is why Marx called it the ';Opiate of the masses.';
People have been trying to tell us all this through art, music, philosophy, the bible, mythology since it all started... Almost every religion including Christianity was originally based upon drugs, usually psychoactive mushrooms.
Watch the movie on this site
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
http://www.gnosticmedia.com
..
Omg(sorry pun), I know what you mean, the Catholic church is full of false doctrinated idolatary, and protestants are too lovey liberal, except everyone as is, even though repenting is conforming from your old ways. I know most protestant churchs never preach about sins only repenting, but never what to repent If you read the Bible and conform your life to living as Yeshua actually wanted you too, OT and NT, Jesus does say to obey all the laws of his father, your sould is safe, as long as you pray, and worship, G-d.
I think there is a lot of well-intentioned falsehood out there. It takes a whole lot of effort to separate the wheat from the chaff. You're going through what you need to go through, your family should understand that it is better to be genuine about your faith.
Odds are ... you're not going to get it right on your own, just by studying the Bible.
You're going to end up somewhere all by yourself, with a totally different ';take'; on things ... and not necessarily the right one.
Go to my Catholic blog and poke around.
You'll find authentic Christian theology and lots of divine truth on display there.
If you can recognize it, grab it.
And while Catholic priests are not particularly great at preaching, you usually don't have to filter out heresy, and you do receive valid sacraments in Cathoilc churches ... which is about as good as you can expect ... this side of heaven.
http://douglawrence.wordpress.com/
You should interpret the bible the way you see it. If you do good and lead life standing by whatever beliefs you have than that should be good enough. If god is everywhere then why do you need to go to church to understand the message?
I understand your parents wanting you to join them @ church It is a way to keep our kids ( who we may not see much of ) with us to worship God together. But your church is not feeding one of ots sheep-namely you. I attended Catholic service just to be with my peeps. But I am not ';fed'; there. Try to make it up to Mom %26amp; Dad some other meaningful way. Spend some quality family time with them. I think Mum %26amp; Dad may be seeing you @ 20 years old- growing up %26amp; up %26amp; away from them. Sometimes thats hard. Good Luck. Shalom.
You are quite right - there are many churches which appear evangelical but are teaching false doctrines. It can take years before one is aware of this.
But you need to have fellowship with some group of Christians at sometime - not necessarily in a church.
Good for you.
Nice to see someone think for themselves.
Instead of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvU-Disl鈥?/a>
Some are, not all. You stopped going for other reasons, because there are several very good churches there.
Most if not all fundie and born again cults are led by false prophets. They also look down on gay people like you.
I agree. The whole end of the world and rapture ideology that evangelicals teach is a huge false doctrine.
Avoid the fundies. They teach false doctrines.
YES
yes it's a bunch of malarky
Many of them are Nug.. Yes most definitely.. Even some of those that have all the markings of a good bible based Church are getting way off the path God intended.. No doubt about it in my mind.
Nug.. That is not to say that all Churches are bad and that you should give up on trying to find a good one.. I personally don't go to church for some of the same reasons you have listed.. But where I live there are not many options for churches to begin with... Ask God to lead you to a good Church where the word of God is taught the way it was intended by God.....Hope that answered you....God bless you !
ABSOLUTELY !!!
Generally speaking Catholicism ADDS doctrines that are not in the Bible. Her daughters the Protestants have a kind of ';cafeteria'; religion where they pick and choose verses to make doctrines with. This is very hard to detect. They can open the Bible and point right to a verse or to upon which that doctrine is based but they are LEAVING OUT verses that would show the doctrine is either a half-doctrine (not all of it there) or that it's patently FALSE. It can take a lot of study to find this.
Tell me; What church in the history of the world fits this description if not the catholic?
Rev 17:5 and upon her forehead a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
What other church produced other churches?
Wednesday, February 10, 2010
Why do we correct,rebuke doctrines and correct false teachings ?
We do so when the timing and the Holy Spirit wants us to.
The King James Bible is one of the more accurate versions that has been revised over and over as the language changes.
We ought to correct those as we to not allow false doctrines to rob believers of the things that God hates.
Why would I have a picture of The Queen of Heaven if she is viewed as pagan diety and Satan as the bible says.
On some issues believers need correctionand discipleship.
As Jesus/Yeshua and believers were explained the scriptures we too should point out sound doctrines and those that Satan creeps in.
Rome was pagan and grew from cruel conquests. Its changes are astounding yet many old false teachings and dieties exist including graven images and things that grieve the Holy Spirit. In love we exhort ,teach and admonish one another.
The hierarchy of Rome always will allow false doctrine many churches have including the seven churches of Revelations.
We at times are hated because we deliver the message God commands to speak or write. At times these are gestures that in love mean more as we love the soul of people led astray.Why do we correct,rebuke doctrines and correct false teachings ?
Oh come on - no one does we just let the christians get on with it!!Why do we correct,rebuke doctrines and correct false teachings ?
Do you presently realize the difference(s) between scripture and Bible???
(That difference is causing much division in USA Christianity)!!!
Grow up!
There is no god.
If you're still a Christian, you don't.acne scar
The King James Bible is one of the more accurate versions that has been revised over and over as the language changes.
We ought to correct those as we to not allow false doctrines to rob believers of the things that God hates.
Why would I have a picture of The Queen of Heaven if she is viewed as pagan diety and Satan as the bible says.
On some issues believers need correctionand discipleship.
As Jesus/Yeshua and believers were explained the scriptures we too should point out sound doctrines and those that Satan creeps in.
Rome was pagan and grew from cruel conquests. Its changes are astounding yet many old false teachings and dieties exist including graven images and things that grieve the Holy Spirit. In love we exhort ,teach and admonish one another.
The hierarchy of Rome always will allow false doctrine many churches have including the seven churches of Revelations.
We at times are hated because we deliver the message God commands to speak or write. At times these are gestures that in love mean more as we love the soul of people led astray.Why do we correct,rebuke doctrines and correct false teachings ?
Oh come on - no one does we just let the christians get on with it!!Why do we correct,rebuke doctrines and correct false teachings ?
Do you presently realize the difference(s) between scripture and Bible???
(That difference is causing much division in USA Christianity)!!!
Grow up!
There is no god.
If you're still a Christian, you don't.
Does scandal, deceit, cheating, cause the doctrines and revelations of Christ to be false and in need of -----?
reform and starting a new church?Does scandal, deceit, cheating, cause the doctrines and revelations of Christ to be false and in need of -----?
No. Satan attacks the Church from outside and from within, but the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church.Does scandal, deceit, cheating, cause the doctrines and revelations of Christ to be false and in need of -----?
In the end the only survivors will be the 144,000 that have been pre-chosen and have received the mark of GOD in their forehead. They will be the very, very, very few that will not follow the doctrines that most of the humans ascribe to.
So it does not matter which church you start or which doctrines you believe, because 99% of the humans will believe the Devil and worship the Devil. The Devil will trick 99% of the people into believing whatever they want to believe.
Your implication is that these 'sins' are somehow new to the world of mankind - which they are not. Truth and God's word and commandments do not and will never change. It is MAN who needs to see the error of his ways and turn to God and live!
The gospel of Christ is on the earth today restored again - MAN just needs to face that truth and repent - as has always been God's words to a sinful world. TRUTH doesn't change just because MEN are too wicked to see it.
My Christian brothers and sisters the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.
Wake up and stop dreaming, you are not saved. Studying about other religions will be the best thing you can do to save yourself from this false religion and beliefs. These confused and interfered people think that a great man named Jesus is God or God's son. How dumb you have to be to believe such nonsense. Let me get this straight, Christ is not anyone's savior but God is. God is the master of the entire universe and everything that exist anywhere even beyond our imaginations. Jesus is a servant of God almighty. Christianity is a religion of Satan. These misguided people worship a man named Jesus (who was indeed a very pious and great man who obeyed and worshiped his true God). But these misguided people made that great man a God鈥檚 son. They will get there share of punishment when they return to the God of Jesus, Mosses, Abraham and the entire universe. Christianity is irrelevant especially in this time when you have access to all the information. Don't be stupid use your head. God didn't give you that head to follow Satan. I strongly urge my Christian brothers and sisters to open up their eyes, heart and mind, learn about other religions of the world. I am sure they will find some other religions to be more sensible, true and worthy of acknowledgment than Christianity. I know everyone thinks that their religion is right and others are wrong without even learning about those religions. Christianity was spread through terror and force throughout the history. From crusades to massacre Muslims to holocaust to massacre Jews to the massacre of native Americans to enslave African American and taking away their religion, names and identity the list goes on. The Christian terrorism has a long history. I personally think Christians should at least learn about Judaism and Islam. You will be surprised how much more sense they make compare to Christianity. I was lost is this false and satanic religion for over 30 years, thanks to God who put some sense in me and I began learning about other religions specially Judaism and Islam. I am currently still learning.
No
The scandals come when church leaders and members do not live the doctrines of the Faith
The Church can only be started by Christ
The Church is called to constant reformation by being faithful
Real reformation is always organic anf faithful development not a cutting off of legitimate development
Depends on the nature of the cheating. If you mean the claiming of fulfilled prophesies that were written after the event that they prophesied then that discredits the bible.
God hates the sin and loves the sinner. There is only one holy Universal, Roman Catholic Church. Except for the Jewish faith, all the rest are in active rebellion because they like their ears tickled.
No - So why have the Catholics started a Church that opposes Jesus ?
We are all mystified. The teachings of Jesus might as well be written on toilet paper for all the use Catholics make of them.
Let God be true though every man be a liar. His word will never fail. There are so many false prophets now in these last days, that only God's word revealed by the Holy Spirit can be trusted.
don't you think there are enough churches out there? that question is what gets people to create their own religions...plz don't give more people ideas!
;)
No. Satan attacks the Church from outside and from within, but the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church.Does scandal, deceit, cheating, cause the doctrines and revelations of Christ to be false and in need of -----?
In the end the only survivors will be the 144,000 that have been pre-chosen and have received the mark of GOD in their forehead. They will be the very, very, very few that will not follow the doctrines that most of the humans ascribe to.
So it does not matter which church you start or which doctrines you believe, because 99% of the humans will believe the Devil and worship the Devil. The Devil will trick 99% of the people into believing whatever they want to believe.
Your implication is that these 'sins' are somehow new to the world of mankind - which they are not. Truth and God's word and commandments do not and will never change. It is MAN who needs to see the error of his ways and turn to God and live!
The gospel of Christ is on the earth today restored again - MAN just needs to face that truth and repent - as has always been God's words to a sinful world. TRUTH doesn't change just because MEN are too wicked to see it.
My Christian brothers and sisters the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.
Wake up and stop dreaming, you are not saved. Studying about other religions will be the best thing you can do to save yourself from this false religion and beliefs. These confused and interfered people think that a great man named Jesus is God or God's son. How dumb you have to be to believe such nonsense. Let me get this straight, Christ is not anyone's savior but God is. God is the master of the entire universe and everything that exist anywhere even beyond our imaginations. Jesus is a servant of God almighty. Christianity is a religion of Satan. These misguided people worship a man named Jesus (who was indeed a very pious and great man who obeyed and worshiped his true God). But these misguided people made that great man a God鈥檚 son. They will get there share of punishment when they return to the God of Jesus, Mosses, Abraham and the entire universe. Christianity is irrelevant especially in this time when you have access to all the information. Don't be stupid use your head. God didn't give you that head to follow Satan. I strongly urge my Christian brothers and sisters to open up their eyes, heart and mind, learn about other religions of the world. I am sure they will find some other religions to be more sensible, true and worthy of acknowledgment than Christianity. I know everyone thinks that their religion is right and others are wrong without even learning about those religions. Christianity was spread through terror and force throughout the history. From crusades to massacre Muslims to holocaust to massacre Jews to the massacre of native Americans to enslave African American and taking away their religion, names and identity the list goes on. The Christian terrorism has a long history. I personally think Christians should at least learn about Judaism and Islam. You will be surprised how much more sense they make compare to Christianity. I was lost is this false and satanic religion for over 30 years, thanks to God who put some sense in me and I began learning about other religions specially Judaism and Islam. I am currently still learning.
No
The scandals come when church leaders and members do not live the doctrines of the Faith
The Church can only be started by Christ
The Church is called to constant reformation by being faithful
Real reformation is always organic anf faithful development not a cutting off of legitimate development
Depends on the nature of the cheating. If you mean the claiming of fulfilled prophesies that were written after the event that they prophesied then that discredits the bible.
God hates the sin and loves the sinner. There is only one holy Universal, Roman Catholic Church. Except for the Jewish faith, all the rest are in active rebellion because they like their ears tickled.
No - So why have the Catholics started a Church that opposes Jesus ?
We are all mystified. The teachings of Jesus might as well be written on toilet paper for all the use Catholics make of them.
Let God be true though every man be a liar. His word will never fail. There are so many false prophets now in these last days, that only God's word revealed by the Holy Spirit can be trusted.
don't you think there are enough churches out there? that question is what gets people to create their own religions...plz don't give more people ideas!
;)
List as many bad fruits [ungodly actions and doctrines] of false Christian religions that you can think of?
Jesus said, '; You will know them by their FRUITS.';List as many bad fruits [ungodly actions and doctrines] of false Christian religions that you can think of?
19聽Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, 20聽idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, 21聽envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit God鈥檚 kingdom.
These are the works of the FLESH, the end results of bad fruits, there is 15 actions of bad fruits.List as many bad fruits [ungodly actions and doctrines] of false Christian religions that you can think of?
Disfellowshipping. Judgment. False Prophecy
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jehovah's Witnesses will say ';Lord Lord'; and he will not hear them
Ungodly actions are easy enough to peg....
but undgodly doctrines are these %26gt; loss of salvation, Jesus not being God, transubstantiation, rosary beads, repetitive prayer, that Mary never had sex after Jesus was born and that Jesus had no brothers and sisters, that Mary is a mediator between God and man, apostolic succession, purgatory, penance and Eucharist required at least once a year...
False Prophets......
Jehovah's Witnesses and their many false prophecies
The Witnesses make many claims in their attempt to convert you to their faith. They profess to have the only true Christian church, to be the only true representatives of God, to have the only correct biblical teaching, and to be the only true announcers of Jehovah's coming kingdom.
If they are the only true church and are the only true voice of God's word, then what they say should prove to be true, especially in prophecy. When it comes to predicting the future, the Watchtower organization fails miserably. Following are some of the false predictions made over the years by the Watchtower organization. If you present these to a JW, he will probably say something like, ';Those are taken out of context,'; or ';They didn't claim to be the prophet of God,'; or ';The light is getting brighter and we are understanding Bible prophecy better now,'; etc. Make a copy of these false prophecies, found in the appendix, and give it to them to check. They are right out of the Witnesses' literature.
Remember Deut. 18:22, ';If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.'; If someone makes a false prophecy, and they have claimed to be a prophet of God, then they are false prophets and are not to be listened to. Do the Witnesses claim to be the prophet of God? Yes, they do.
In 1972 the Jehovah's Witness Watchtower claimed to be the prophet of God.
IDENTIFYING THE ';PROPHET'; -- ';So does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?...This ';prophet'; was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses...Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it,'; (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197). (See Deut. 18:21.)
* 1897 ';Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874,'; (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).
* 1899 ';...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced,'; (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).
* 1916 ';The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873,'; (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).
* 1918 ';Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection,'; (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).
* 1922 ';The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914,'; (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).
* 1923 ';Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge,'; (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
* 1925 ';The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year,'; (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).
* 1925 ';It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work,'; (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).
* 1926 ';Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything,'; (Watchtower, p. 232).
* 1931 ';There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates,'; (Vindication, p. 338).
* 1941 ';Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon,'; (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).
* 1968 ';True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing
http://www.allaboutcults.org/
http://www.waltermartin.com/eyewit.html
http://www.waltermartin.com/cults.html
Why does the Jehovah's Witness' bible the NWT remove all of these scriptures?
THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESS ';BIBLE';
';New World Translation'; DELETES WHOLE VERSES!
The Only Bible the Jehovah's Witnesses will trust! The Bible only Jehovah's Witnesses would trust!
Based on the JEHOVAH'S WITNESS ';New World Translation';, Revised 1984 edition.
WHOLE Bible verses deleted in the ';New World Translation';
The following WHOLE verses have been removed in the Jehovah's Witness ';Bible';--whether in the text or placed in an appendix...OVER 47 in the New Testament alone ! ! !
A TYPICAL EXAMPLE (Matthew 18):
10. See to it that you men do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you, That their angels in heaven always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11. -----
12. ';What do you think? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astrayed, will he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? (';New World Translation';, Revised 1984 edition.)
What leading Protestant Greek scholars say about the ';New World Translation';:
Matthew 17:21 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.';
Matthew 18:11 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.';
Matthew 23:14 -- COMPLETELY removed. What arethe Jehovah's Witness missing?
';Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.';
Mark 7:16 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.';
Mark 9:44 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.';
Mark 9:46 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.';
Mark 11:26 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.';
Mark 15:28 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.';
Mark 16:9-20 (all 12 verses) -- They separated the last 12 verses of Mark from the main text in an appendix (of sorts) with this detracting statement: ';Some late manuscripts and versions contain a short conclusion after Mark 16:8, as follows] (New World Translation, Revised 1984 edition)
Luke 1:28 - Vitally important phrase COMPLETELY removed. ';blessed art thou among women';
Luke 17:36 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.';
Luke 23:17 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)';
John 5:4 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.';
Jn. 7:53- 8:11 (all 12 verses) -- They separated the last 12 verses of Mark from the main text and place it at the bottom of the page in a appendix (of sorts) with this detracting statement: ';Manuscripts NBSYS omit verses 53 to chapter 8, verse 11, which read ( with some variations in the various Greek texts and versions) as follows:';
Acts 8:37 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.';
Acts 15:34 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.';
Act 24:6-8 -- Vitally important phrases (from verses 6,8) and all of verse 7 COMPLETELY removed. ';and would have judged according to our law. But the chief captain Sysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands, commanding his accusers to come unto thee:';
Acts 28:29 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.';
* 17 minutes ago
* - 4 days left to answer.
Additional Details
What leading Protestant Greek scholars say about the ';New World Translation'; :
Dr. Bruce M. Metzger, professor of New Testament at Princeton University, calls the NWT ';a frightful mistranslation,.. Erroneous...pernicious...reprehensible.. If the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists.'; (Professor of New Testament Language and Literature)
David Koresh of the Branch Davidian religious sect -were pretty out there.
Whilst I am not a Christian, but am religiously/spiritually aligned to the RCs.
Why don't you get your Holy Bible out and quit being lazy. Look them up yourself and STUDY the Bible. You just might learn a thing or two. I recommend you start in Proverbs.
Rev. Shelley
Christians who believe in torture, killing and revenge.
Christians who think it's right to imagine other people burning like a candle in Hell.
for example ; the christians say that Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree an apple. It was not an apple it was dates.
Melons.
I really don't like oranges...
Why?!
Is this a question?
Teaching lies about...
Christmas, Santa Claus, Easter, Easter bunny. Pick a holiday they celebrate and it's got something pagan attached to it.
Teaching that there is an immortal soul. Not according to the Bible!
Teaching that everyone goes to heaven. Not according to the Bible!
Teaching eternal torment in a burning hell. Not according to the Bible!
Allowing unrepentantly immoral people to remain in good standing in their churches. Often their own clergy. The Bible says 'remove the wicked man from among yourselves.'
Blessing wars. Christendom, not true Christianity, is actually responsible for all the worst wars in history.
Teaching that Jesus is his own Father. Not according to the Bible!
Mixing in politics, often running politics. Jesus told his true followers
to be 'no part of the world.'
The inquisition. Torture and murder of anyone who disagreed with their politics. The Crusades, Torture and murder of millions. Children forced to fight in the Crusades.
Incalculable greed. Look at the money and wealth controlled by the Catholic Church alone. Then toss in mainstream Protestant churches. Televangelists and their ill-gotten millions. The list is endless here.
OK that's just a start. I'll let someone else add a few.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/kn37/article鈥?/a>
19聽Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, 20聽idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, 21聽envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit God鈥檚 kingdom.
These are the works of the FLESH, the end results of bad fruits, there is 15 actions of bad fruits.List as many bad fruits [ungodly actions and doctrines] of false Christian religions that you can think of?
Disfellowshipping. Judgment. False Prophecy
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jehovah's Witnesses will say ';Lord Lord'; and he will not hear them
Ungodly actions are easy enough to peg....
but undgodly doctrines are these %26gt; loss of salvation, Jesus not being God, transubstantiation, rosary beads, repetitive prayer, that Mary never had sex after Jesus was born and that Jesus had no brothers and sisters, that Mary is a mediator between God and man, apostolic succession, purgatory, penance and Eucharist required at least once a year...
False Prophets......
Jehovah's Witnesses and their many false prophecies
The Witnesses make many claims in their attempt to convert you to their faith. They profess to have the only true Christian church, to be the only true representatives of God, to have the only correct biblical teaching, and to be the only true announcers of Jehovah's coming kingdom.
If they are the only true church and are the only true voice of God's word, then what they say should prove to be true, especially in prophecy. When it comes to predicting the future, the Watchtower organization fails miserably. Following are some of the false predictions made over the years by the Watchtower organization. If you present these to a JW, he will probably say something like, ';Those are taken out of context,'; or ';They didn't claim to be the prophet of God,'; or ';The light is getting brighter and we are understanding Bible prophecy better now,'; etc. Make a copy of these false prophecies, found in the appendix, and give it to them to check. They are right out of the Witnesses' literature.
Remember Deut. 18:22, ';If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.'; If someone makes a false prophecy, and they have claimed to be a prophet of God, then they are false prophets and are not to be listened to. Do the Witnesses claim to be the prophet of God? Yes, they do.
In 1972 the Jehovah's Witness Watchtower claimed to be the prophet of God.
IDENTIFYING THE ';PROPHET'; -- ';So does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?...This ';prophet'; was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses...Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it,'; (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197). (See Deut. 18:21.)
* 1897 ';Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874,'; (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).
* 1899 ';...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced,'; (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).
* 1916 ';The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873,'; (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).
* 1918 ';Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection,'; (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).
* 1922 ';The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914,'; (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).
* 1923 ';Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge,'; (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
* 1925 ';The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year,'; (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).
* 1925 ';It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work,'; (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).
* 1926 ';Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything,'; (Watchtower, p. 232).
* 1931 ';There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates,'; (Vindication, p. 338).
* 1941 ';Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon,'; (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).
* 1968 ';True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing
http://www.allaboutcults.org/
http://www.waltermartin.com/eyewit.html
http://www.waltermartin.com/cults.html
Why does the Jehovah's Witness' bible the NWT remove all of these scriptures?
THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESS ';BIBLE';
';New World Translation'; DELETES WHOLE VERSES!
The Only Bible the Jehovah's Witnesses will trust! The Bible only Jehovah's Witnesses would trust!
Based on the JEHOVAH'S WITNESS ';New World Translation';, Revised 1984 edition.
WHOLE Bible verses deleted in the ';New World Translation';
The following WHOLE verses have been removed in the Jehovah's Witness ';Bible';--whether in the text or placed in an appendix...OVER 47 in the New Testament alone ! ! !
A TYPICAL EXAMPLE (Matthew 18):
10. See to it that you men do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you, That their angels in heaven always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11. -----
12. ';What do you think? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astrayed, will he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? (';New World Translation';, Revised 1984 edition.)
What leading Protestant Greek scholars say about the ';New World Translation';:
Matthew 17:21 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.';
Matthew 18:11 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.';
Matthew 23:14 -- COMPLETELY removed. What arethe Jehovah's Witness missing?
';Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.';
Mark 7:16 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.';
Mark 9:44 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.';
Mark 9:46 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.';
Mark 11:26 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.';
Mark 15:28 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.';
Mark 16:9-20 (all 12 verses) -- They separated the last 12 verses of Mark from the main text in an appendix (of sorts) with this detracting statement: ';Some late manuscripts and versions contain a short conclusion after Mark 16:8, as follows] (New World Translation, Revised 1984 edition)
Luke 1:28 - Vitally important phrase COMPLETELY removed. ';blessed art thou among women';
Luke 17:36 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.';
Luke 23:17 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)';
John 5:4 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.';
Jn. 7:53- 8:11 (all 12 verses) -- They separated the last 12 verses of Mark from the main text and place it at the bottom of the page in a appendix (of sorts) with this detracting statement: ';Manuscripts NBSYS omit verses 53 to chapter 8, verse 11, which read ( with some variations in the various Greek texts and versions) as follows:';
Acts 8:37 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.';
Acts 15:34 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.';
Act 24:6-8 -- Vitally important phrases (from verses 6,8) and all of verse 7 COMPLETELY removed. ';and would have judged according to our law. But the chief captain Sysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands, commanding his accusers to come unto thee:';
Acts 28:29 -- COMPLETELY removed. What are the Jehovah's Witness missing?
';And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.';
* 17 minutes ago
* - 4 days left to answer.
Additional Details
What leading Protestant Greek scholars say about the ';New World Translation'; :
Dr. Bruce M. Metzger, professor of New Testament at Princeton University, calls the NWT ';a frightful mistranslation,.. Erroneous...pernicious...reprehensible.. If the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists.'; (Professor of New Testament Language and Literature)
David Koresh of the Branch Davidian religious sect -were pretty out there.
Whilst I am not a Christian, but am religiously/spiritually aligned to the RCs.
Why don't you get your Holy Bible out and quit being lazy. Look them up yourself and STUDY the Bible. You just might learn a thing or two. I recommend you start in Proverbs.
Rev. Shelley
Christians who believe in torture, killing and revenge.
Christians who think it's right to imagine other people burning like a candle in Hell.
for example ; the christians say that Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree an apple. It was not an apple it was dates.
Melons.
I really don't like oranges...
Why?!
Is this a question?
Teaching lies about...
Christmas, Santa Claus, Easter, Easter bunny. Pick a holiday they celebrate and it's got something pagan attached to it.
Teaching that there is an immortal soul. Not according to the Bible!
Teaching that everyone goes to heaven. Not according to the Bible!
Teaching eternal torment in a burning hell. Not according to the Bible!
Allowing unrepentantly immoral people to remain in good standing in their churches. Often their own clergy. The Bible says 'remove the wicked man from among yourselves.'
Blessing wars. Christendom, not true Christianity, is actually responsible for all the worst wars in history.
Teaching that Jesus is his own Father. Not according to the Bible!
Mixing in politics, often running politics. Jesus told his true followers
to be 'no part of the world.'
The inquisition. Torture and murder of anyone who disagreed with their politics. The Crusades, Torture and murder of millions. Children forced to fight in the Crusades.
Incalculable greed. Look at the money and wealth controlled by the Catholic Church alone. Then toss in mainstream Protestant churches. Televangelists and their ill-gotten millions. The list is endless here.
OK that's just a start. I'll let someone else add a few.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/kn37/article鈥?/a>
What if the holy Triune God Doctrines is False?
Beware of those out there that do not preach The Holy Deity of Jesus Christ, The Holy Triune GodHead, The Inerrancy of The Living Word, The Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ, that Jesus Christ is God, that ';they'; keep anything in ';secret'; from you. ';Those'; are ';wolves in sheeps clothing';. Stay away from those!! (Also any ';false religion'; that says you can become gods yourselves.) Beware of those!!
the preceding statement is a quote. if the statement is true than all mormons and jehova witnesses are going to HELLL.
i dont believe it is True!
because of the few verses that are taught in REVElationWhat if the holy Triune God Doctrines is False?
As I鈥檝e said a number of times if we returned to the belief of the first century Christens and left out all the edicts of mankind added down the ages.
Then the question of the Triune God would not arise.
The concept was introduced by individuals who were influence by Egyptian, Babylonian and Greek beliefs and philosophies.
No were in the Bible is Jesus referred to as God the son.
He is always referred to as the Son of God.
Jesus only ever claimed to be at one with God in purpose never as an equal.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Anybody can pluck random verses from scripture to prove a point but taken over all Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are three different entities.What if the holy Triune God Doctrines is False?
It is false. The Savior's name is YAHOSHUA. The Heavenly father is a Spirit, and is not schizophrenic.
To answer the question area;
What if?
If the trinity were indeed a fact, why didn't Jesus in his wonderful way of teaching, refer to it?
He did mention the Holy spirit as God's active force. He himself had use of it since he said he would send it.
He also came to sanctify his father's name, Jehovah.
Remember his model prayer. Our father in the heavens, your name is HOLY......
Interesting quote. Which prophet said it? I know the answer. A false prophet.
The doctrine of the Triune was officially accepted as the official doctrine of the Catholic church at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD. It reflects the belief of the Greek philosophers that God was a spirit without body, parts, or passions; that he filled the immensity of space, and yet was small enough to fit in your heart. The early Christians believed that God and Jesus had physical bodies, much like the early Roman and Greek gods. The doctrine of the Triune is a Hellenic corruption, one that has been accepted by the Catholic church and every major protestant church.
Joseph Smith didn't know about the council of Nicea. He only testified of what he saw in his vision; that God the Father and his son Jesus Christ had bodies of flesh and bone, albeit glorified and perfected.
what if theyre not? Remember the devil does deceive to put them in hell!
It is false and made up by men. The idea of it is irrational and to date very few, if any, can make any real sense of it.
God is a singular being with a singular personality. The problem is most foks don't understand what the incarnation is.
Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Jesus is not 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 or 1/5 God. All that God is he is in Christ Jesus.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Jesus is God. There ain't but one God, so what does that tell us?
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
God is a Spirit. That Spirit took on flesh so he could die for our sins as a human being. Jesus is both LORD(Jehovah) and Christ.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Jesus is God in flesh, just like Isaiah prophesied.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
As you see, the Mighty God , the Everlasting Father, in flesh is called the Son. God became a real human being, Jesus Christ, without ceasing to exist as the all powerful, ever-present Spirit. God did not become two separate people. He just began to exist in an additional way.
As a normal human being Jesus had his diapers changed as a baby, learned to wak, and talk. He grew hungry and thirsty. When the time came God laid down his human life to die for our sins.
1John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
After 3 days he rose from the dead and showed himself to his disciples.
John 20
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
You see that Jesus said Thomas was blessed for believing that he is God and that those of us who have not seen Jesus with our own eys are blessed for believing that Jesus is God.
Jesus allowed his disciples to worship him. Only God is deserving of worship.
Matt 28:
8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Jesus is God in the flesh.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Romans 9
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
the preceding statement is a quote. if the statement is true than all mormons and jehova witnesses are going to HELLL.
i dont believe it is True!
because of the few verses that are taught in REVElationWhat if the holy Triune God Doctrines is False?
As I鈥檝e said a number of times if we returned to the belief of the first century Christens and left out all the edicts of mankind added down the ages.
Then the question of the Triune God would not arise.
The concept was introduced by individuals who were influence by Egyptian, Babylonian and Greek beliefs and philosophies.
No were in the Bible is Jesus referred to as God the son.
He is always referred to as the Son of God.
Jesus only ever claimed to be at one with God in purpose never as an equal.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Anybody can pluck random verses from scripture to prove a point but taken over all Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are three different entities.What if the holy Triune God Doctrines is False?
It is false. The Savior's name is YAHOSHUA. The Heavenly father is a Spirit, and is not schizophrenic.
To answer the question area;
What if?
If the trinity were indeed a fact, why didn't Jesus in his wonderful way of teaching, refer to it?
He did mention the Holy spirit as God's active force. He himself had use of it since he said he would send it.
He also came to sanctify his father's name, Jehovah.
Remember his model prayer. Our father in the heavens, your name is HOLY......
Interesting quote. Which prophet said it? I know the answer. A false prophet.
The doctrine of the Triune was officially accepted as the official doctrine of the Catholic church at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD. It reflects the belief of the Greek philosophers that God was a spirit without body, parts, or passions; that he filled the immensity of space, and yet was small enough to fit in your heart. The early Christians believed that God and Jesus had physical bodies, much like the early Roman and Greek gods. The doctrine of the Triune is a Hellenic corruption, one that has been accepted by the Catholic church and every major protestant church.
Joseph Smith didn't know about the council of Nicea. He only testified of what he saw in his vision; that God the Father and his son Jesus Christ had bodies of flesh and bone, albeit glorified and perfected.
what if theyre not? Remember the devil does deceive to put them in hell!
It is false and made up by men. The idea of it is irrational and to date very few, if any, can make any real sense of it.
God is a singular being with a singular personality. The problem is most foks don't understand what the incarnation is.
Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Jesus is not 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 or 1/5 God. All that God is he is in Christ Jesus.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Jesus is God. There ain't but one God, so what does that tell us?
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
God is a Spirit. That Spirit took on flesh so he could die for our sins as a human being. Jesus is both LORD(Jehovah) and Christ.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Jesus is God in flesh, just like Isaiah prophesied.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
As you see, the Mighty God , the Everlasting Father, in flesh is called the Son. God became a real human being, Jesus Christ, without ceasing to exist as the all powerful, ever-present Spirit. God did not become two separate people. He just began to exist in an additional way.
As a normal human being Jesus had his diapers changed as a baby, learned to wak, and talk. He grew hungry and thirsty. When the time came God laid down his human life to die for our sins.
1John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
After 3 days he rose from the dead and showed himself to his disciples.
John 20
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
You see that Jesus said Thomas was blessed for believing that he is God and that those of us who have not seen Jesus with our own eys are blessed for believing that Jesus is God.
Jesus allowed his disciples to worship him. Only God is deserving of worship.
Matt 28:
8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Jesus is God in the flesh.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Romans 9
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
If Catholics have false teaching and doctrines......?
why do people have to create straw men and lies about beliefs to attack instead of attacking the true beliefs of Catholics?
I think it is because non-Catholic Christians who hate His Church do so out of evil contention thus avoiding the real truth that their beliefs can not match the veracity of Catholic teaching. In the Bible the Catholic Church is called the ';bulwark and ground of the truth'; which will never fall into apostasy. Those are difficult credentials to attack.
Why don't Catholic critics check Catholic beliefs and find out if the true beliefs match with what they believe and have been told about Catholic beliefs instead of persisting in bearing false witness against Catholics and Christ's Church?If Catholics have false teaching and doctrines......?
I think cases of ';evil contention'; are rarer than you might otherwise expect. Certainly, there are plenty of people who hate the Catholic Church for reasons that usually have nothing to with Catholic theology (although most will try to dress it up as that). However, I have noticed that most people who say things like ';Catholics worship Mary instead of God'; and ';Catholics worship idols'; and ';Confession of sins to a priest is unbiblical'; and ';Catholics believe in salvation by works'; are simply ignorant.
They have been told these things by sources that they trust and it does not occur to them that these sources might be wrong. Some of these sources, I'm sure, are intentionally in error in order to paint the Catholic Church in as negative a light as possible. Others are no doubt unintentionally in error, having been influenced by the propagation of Protestant misconception about the RCC that has built up with the passage of time.
Honestly, most of the people that I've had ask me why I do things like worship Mary, pay for indulgences, and worship statues have *no idea* that Catholics don't do these things. If they ask me about Confession, eventually the discussion comes around the passage out of Scripture where Christ tells the Apostles ';If you forgive men's sins, they are forgiven them; if you hold them bound, they are held bound.'; Of course, in Protestant theology, the implications of this passage are significantly downplayed.
I wish people who spout false information about the Catholic Church (intentionally or unintentionally) would do their homework. Almost without exception, any Protestant that I've invited to Mass or to sit down and have a chat with a priest or attend a Catholic Bible study has been astonished at ';how Christian'; Catholic theology and practice are. That's usually the point at which I try to resist the urge to roll my eyes and say ';I told you so.'; ;)If Catholics have false teaching and doctrines......?
The problem is that many many non-Catholics get their teaching about Catholicism from Chick-tracts and other anti-Catholic hate literature than from the source.
Why do real study when you can get trash on a group for free on the web or from someone on a street-corner passing out a tract? You 'll also hear it on Sunday from some churches that teach from Chick or other such places. The problem with these people is that since they know so little about Catholic teaching, that they don't even know where their own come from.
The truth is that if one thinks Catholic teaching is wrong because ';it's not in the Bible';, they have no means of justifying Sola Scriptura, because not only is that NOT in the Bible, but specifically spoken AGAINST in the Bible. Paul taught that believers were to heed what was given in letters and in tradition.
It's likely not straw man arguments, but aping faulty arguments heard about Catholicism from people completely ignorant about what those teachings really are.
Father Joseph
it never ceases me amaze me the audacity some people have in trying to educate us catholics on what we believe in! i am of the opinion that that protestants are wannabe catholics but with attitude. they desperately desire to be in the Church yet it is the very Church they accuse of personifying evil.
i know you have stated before that you were a protestant minister for 25years before converting. my question is do protestants actually look up to their pastors like we catholics do are priests, like yourself? and if so are they not preaching a meassage of hate perpetrated by these church leaders?
i dont understand the hatred towards Christ Church by seemingly good people. i dont know if i will ever understand this this kind of hatred. are catholics encouraged to have such loathing towards protestants churches? i dont believe so.
i will stand corrected with whatever your reply is.
God bless
';Many hate what they PERCEIVE of Roman Catholicism, not the Truth of Roman Catholicism.';
Bishop Fulton Sheen
I have found this to be extremely true. It is easier to say hateful things, than to investigate entirely or to speak with a Catholic openly about the truth of our Faith.
Case in Point***
';read your own Catholic Encyclopedia on, Mary, Trinity, Christmas, Easter.';
As if I do not willfully accept Jesus Christ as my personal Savior AND the True founder of HIS Catholic Church.
Jesus Christ is the Great High Priest of His Catholic Church
Heb 4:14-16, What is a priest in His Catholic Church? 5:1-4
And these priest made others...Act13:3, Acts14:22, Acts 1:24-26, Titus 1:5
';Hold your friends close, but your enemies closer!';
The dream of two pillars that St John Bosco had is a very interesting one, I would think you would like it.
http://www.miraclerosarymission.org/bosc鈥?/a>
(isn't he a saint?)
A lot of sincere people really misunderstand Church teaching. You said we don't pray to the BVM. You have to understand that the word pray original meaning was not to worship but to petitiion, ask, etc and in that sense we do pray to the BVM. The old English term prithee means pray thee. A person used that expression when they wanted a special favor from someone.
2tell: This is exactly what he is saying in the question - attacking us for things that people perceive we believe, but we do not. We do not pray to Mary. It is discussed on this board every single day. People never get tired of accusing us of it, so we continue to explain it. We do not pray to Mary. We ask Mary to pray for us. She is not a mediator. She is a friend, a holy person, Jesus' blessed mother and our holy mother. We don't worship her any more than you worship
your friends when you ask them to pray for you. When you ask your friends to pray for you, are you praying to them? No, you are communicating with them. We can't exactly call Mary on the phone, so the only way we can communicate with her is to pray. Our prayers are not to ask her to do the things that only God can do - we know that only God can do those things. We ask her to join us in our prayers to God.
And purgatory is in the Bible, but it is in the part of the Bible that the Protestants took out. I wonder why?
they dont do it becuase it would actually require thinking and annalizing, something most protetants refuse to do. further more there businesses (churches) would have to declare bankrupsy if the followers did, so they sit and spew their lies about it
In many cases, it is simply easier to hate, and we all know that hate is usually based on fear and ignorance.
Many anti-catholic bigots fear the truth, and thus are deathly afraid to learn that their misconceptions of the Catholic Faith are utterly wrong. Their ignorance and refusal to learn the truth only fuels the fear on which their hatred feeds.
It is not just flesh and blood critics that Catholics will have to fight, but against the powers and principalities of hell itself which seeks to destroy the Church. Satan still has a great deal of influence in trying to destroy the Church. ';But the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.';
Good works are integral to salvation, as the Council of Trent agreed. PeacebyJesus is mistaken.
Matthew 25 shows that we will be judged by our charitable works to the least of our brothers.
Romans 3-5 talks about faith as a vital step toward salvation. Nowhere does the scripture say we are saved by faith alone. The one mention of ';faith alone'; in James 2 says: ';You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT by faith alone.'; James also teaches that faith without works is dead, with no power to save us.
Reread Eph 2:8-10:
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith鈥攁nd this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God鈥攏ot by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
We don't earn salvation by the ';works'; of keeping the law, a constant theme in Paul's writings. But as verse 10 teaches, we are created to do good works. If we refuse the good works for which we are created, we have dead faith and we are not being saved.
The continuing Protestant insistence on faith without works is more than a misinterpretation: It is an evasion of the Christian responsibility to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, tend the sick, and in general, to become a servant to the needy.
Cheers,
Bruce
because Satan and his minions are behind the attacks and the majority of these people are the ones that are against baptism so they have no real conscience to help them fight off his attacks. The proof is in the pudding I would say. Just like Jesus said when he told them when they said that Abraham was their father that he (Abraham) wasn't their father---their father was the prince of lies---because if they were Abraham's children they would love him. If these people were actually children of the most high God they would not be so hateful towards Catholics. The Holy Spirit would counsel them but, they do not have the Holy Spirit. They are victims of another spirit.
To answer your first question: Why do people have to create straw men and lies about beliefs to attack, instead of attacking the true beliefs of Catholics?
The truth is, many non-Catholics are steeped in prejudice. They are content with hearing from a third party complainer about what we Catholics believe, and do not dare examine what we truly believe lest they may be influenced. The prejudice is blinding. Jesus contended with the same viewpoint. The scribes and pharisees had all kinds of imaginary accusations against him, with no evidence. They accepted false testimony rather than evaluated what Jesus was doing, what he was saying, and what wonderful things were occurring due to his teachings and works.
The fact is, Jesus himself established the church which spread from Rome to all the corners of the globe. If you oppose his church, you oppose him. He is in control of his body, the church. Our protestant brothers are deprived of the gifts and full fellowship of the church established by Jesus, as long as they imagine that we are the anti-Christ or believe some other ridiculous lie.
Here is the measuring stick of a follower of Jesus, whether Catholic or Protestant, because no group can claim 100% compliance with Christ's teachings: You will know them by their fruits.
Maybe these slanderers fear that the Church may actually be right or they would draw from primary sources in context like the Catechism or Dogmatic Constitutions of the Councils.
How do you tell the truth, in a loving way? If I knew that you were in a false religion, would you want me to ';attack'; you by letting you know. If a bomb was going to explode inside a large building and you knew about it, wouldn't you try to tell everyone so they could get out? Please take some time to explore what I am talking about at www.endtime.com (sincere thanks to you - my brother in Christ Jesus)
First off, read your own Catholic Encyclopedia on, Mary, Trinity, Christmas, Easter.
Then get back to me Honey. you are about to be shocked.
Now, who's church is HIS CHURCH????????
Jesus? God the Father? The POPE?
Who's church?????
Christ as our Savior NEVER would bare false witness.
So The Christ said two things.
Tho will not kill.
love thy neighbor as you love yourself.
and to His Apostles...MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD
explaining why REAL Christians who BELIEVE in CHRIST do not KILL in WAR, because WE believe that Christ, and His Father God Almighty will fix the earthly problems.
So as a False Christian, you have been duped into believing many Church Doctrines that go against early TRUE APOSTOLIC CHRISTIAN BELIEFS.
RE READ the Catholic encyclopedia.
Then read the Real word of God the BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!
As a former faithful Catholic, who left after i became born again, my experience has been that it is Catholics who are the most ignorant of their faith, and in addition, few really have a clue as to how radically different it is now than 1,000 years ago.
http://www.catholictreasures.com/article鈥?/a>
The council of Trent did teach works are meritorious for salvation, a denial of Romans 3-5, Titus 3:5; Eph. 2:8-10, and a misunderstanding of Ja. 2. And Catholic today believe they are in the one true church. Yet the authenticity of a true church or believer is not based upon ecclesiastical or physical lineage, but like that of a true Jews, it is based upon effectual faith in the gospel of grace, which Rome effectively, officially and effectually, denies.
Scripturally, the RC assumption of a papacy is not Biblical, In interpreting the gospels and thus Mt. 16 we are to look to their application and the doctrine behind them in the promised (Jn. 16:12-15) revelation of Christ in the rest of the New Testament. Searching therein we do not find even one command ever given to the New Testament church or churches to submit to Peter as a singular supreme pope, nor one example of them submitting to Peter as one (in Acts 15, James gives the definitive sentence), nor does Peter ever refer to himself as such, but as ';an'; elder and ';an'; apostle, and ';a servant'; (1Pt. 5:1; 2Pt. 1:1). And very critically, no where is there any provison made for a sicessor to Peter, unlike for that of pastors.
The papacy is patterned more after the manner of the autocratic Roman empire. Taking on the form of the empire in which it was found, it became a vast an autocratic (answerable to no one) institution, with it's own Caesario-papacy, that adds to the Bible and effectively it makes it a second class authority (after the ';Teaching Magisterium';). Thus were unScriptural doctrines like indulgences and novenas and prayers to saints adopted, and the Bible was effectively bound from the common people for hundreds of years, while later Bingo was loosed! Hence a autocratic Caesario -papacy that makes the Bible a second place authority to an autocratic pope and church.
Finally, the ultimate error of Rome is that of fostering dependence upon her supposed powers, as well as one's own merits, for salvation, rather than bringing souls to come before God as sinners, destitute of any merit whereby they may escape Hell and gain Heaven, and thus cast all their faith upon Christ and His blood for justification and regeneration (Rm. 3:9 - 5:8; Eph. 1:13; Titus 3:5).
And having turned from sin to Him, be baptized under water (Acts 8:37) and walk in newness of life (Rm. 6). And so glorify God alone!!*
I think you are putting the cart before the horse when attempting to link the Roman Catholic Church to scripture, with this claim, ';In the Bible the Catholic Church is called the ';bulwark and ground of the truth'; which will never fall into apostasy.';
What you need to understand is that many Christians do know the Catholic faith and do not believe it to be what it claims. I mean no ill will to you, but I do not believe that the Catholic Church teaches salvation as Christ did. In fact, I am quite certain that it doesn't.
I'm sure there are many spirit filled Catholics. Its some of their beliefs that just dont line up with the Bible! The biggest one I think, is praying to anyone besides Jesus Christ. There is only one mediator. And there is no purgatory. That's really all I need, to stay clear.
Dont they pray to Mary?
Please show me scripture
I think it is because non-Catholic Christians who hate His Church do so out of evil contention thus avoiding the real truth that their beliefs can not match the veracity of Catholic teaching. In the Bible the Catholic Church is called the ';bulwark and ground of the truth'; which will never fall into apostasy. Those are difficult credentials to attack.
Why don't Catholic critics check Catholic beliefs and find out if the true beliefs match with what they believe and have been told about Catholic beliefs instead of persisting in bearing false witness against Catholics and Christ's Church?If Catholics have false teaching and doctrines......?
I think cases of ';evil contention'; are rarer than you might otherwise expect. Certainly, there are plenty of people who hate the Catholic Church for reasons that usually have nothing to with Catholic theology (although most will try to dress it up as that). However, I have noticed that most people who say things like ';Catholics worship Mary instead of God'; and ';Catholics worship idols'; and ';Confession of sins to a priest is unbiblical'; and ';Catholics believe in salvation by works'; are simply ignorant.
They have been told these things by sources that they trust and it does not occur to them that these sources might be wrong. Some of these sources, I'm sure, are intentionally in error in order to paint the Catholic Church in as negative a light as possible. Others are no doubt unintentionally in error, having been influenced by the propagation of Protestant misconception about the RCC that has built up with the passage of time.
Honestly, most of the people that I've had ask me why I do things like worship Mary, pay for indulgences, and worship statues have *no idea* that Catholics don't do these things. If they ask me about Confession, eventually the discussion comes around the passage out of Scripture where Christ tells the Apostles ';If you forgive men's sins, they are forgiven them; if you hold them bound, they are held bound.'; Of course, in Protestant theology, the implications of this passage are significantly downplayed.
I wish people who spout false information about the Catholic Church (intentionally or unintentionally) would do their homework. Almost without exception, any Protestant that I've invited to Mass or to sit down and have a chat with a priest or attend a Catholic Bible study has been astonished at ';how Christian'; Catholic theology and practice are. That's usually the point at which I try to resist the urge to roll my eyes and say ';I told you so.'; ;)If Catholics have false teaching and doctrines......?
The problem is that many many non-Catholics get their teaching about Catholicism from Chick-tracts and other anti-Catholic hate literature than from the source.
Why do real study when you can get trash on a group for free on the web or from someone on a street-corner passing out a tract? You 'll also hear it on Sunday from some churches that teach from Chick or other such places. The problem with these people is that since they know so little about Catholic teaching, that they don't even know where their own come from.
The truth is that if one thinks Catholic teaching is wrong because ';it's not in the Bible';, they have no means of justifying Sola Scriptura, because not only is that NOT in the Bible, but specifically spoken AGAINST in the Bible. Paul taught that believers were to heed what was given in letters and in tradition.
It's likely not straw man arguments, but aping faulty arguments heard about Catholicism from people completely ignorant about what those teachings really are.
Father Joseph
it never ceases me amaze me the audacity some people have in trying to educate us catholics on what we believe in! i am of the opinion that that protestants are wannabe catholics but with attitude. they desperately desire to be in the Church yet it is the very Church they accuse of personifying evil.
i know you have stated before that you were a protestant minister for 25years before converting. my question is do protestants actually look up to their pastors like we catholics do are priests, like yourself? and if so are they not preaching a meassage of hate perpetrated by these church leaders?
i dont understand the hatred towards Christ Church by seemingly good people. i dont know if i will ever understand this this kind of hatred. are catholics encouraged to have such loathing towards protestants churches? i dont believe so.
i will stand corrected with whatever your reply is.
God bless
';Many hate what they PERCEIVE of Roman Catholicism, not the Truth of Roman Catholicism.';
Bishop Fulton Sheen
I have found this to be extremely true. It is easier to say hateful things, than to investigate entirely or to speak with a Catholic openly about the truth of our Faith.
Case in Point***
';read your own Catholic Encyclopedia on, Mary, Trinity, Christmas, Easter.';
As if I do not willfully accept Jesus Christ as my personal Savior AND the True founder of HIS Catholic Church.
Jesus Christ is the Great High Priest of His Catholic Church
Heb 4:14-16, What is a priest in His Catholic Church? 5:1-4
And these priest made others...Act13:3, Acts14:22, Acts 1:24-26, Titus 1:5
';Hold your friends close, but your enemies closer!';
The dream of two pillars that St John Bosco had is a very interesting one, I would think you would like it.
http://www.miraclerosarymission.org/bosc鈥?/a>
(isn't he a saint?)
A lot of sincere people really misunderstand Church teaching. You said we don't pray to the BVM. You have to understand that the word pray original meaning was not to worship but to petitiion, ask, etc and in that sense we do pray to the BVM. The old English term prithee means pray thee. A person used that expression when they wanted a special favor from someone.
2tell: This is exactly what he is saying in the question - attacking us for things that people perceive we believe, but we do not. We do not pray to Mary. It is discussed on this board every single day. People never get tired of accusing us of it, so we continue to explain it. We do not pray to Mary. We ask Mary to pray for us. She is not a mediator. She is a friend, a holy person, Jesus' blessed mother and our holy mother. We don't worship her any more than you worship
your friends when you ask them to pray for you. When you ask your friends to pray for you, are you praying to them? No, you are communicating with them. We can't exactly call Mary on the phone, so the only way we can communicate with her is to pray. Our prayers are not to ask her to do the things that only God can do - we know that only God can do those things. We ask her to join us in our prayers to God.
And purgatory is in the Bible, but it is in the part of the Bible that the Protestants took out. I wonder why?
they dont do it becuase it would actually require thinking and annalizing, something most protetants refuse to do. further more there businesses (churches) would have to declare bankrupsy if the followers did, so they sit and spew their lies about it
In many cases, it is simply easier to hate, and we all know that hate is usually based on fear and ignorance.
Many anti-catholic bigots fear the truth, and thus are deathly afraid to learn that their misconceptions of the Catholic Faith are utterly wrong. Their ignorance and refusal to learn the truth only fuels the fear on which their hatred feeds.
It is not just flesh and blood critics that Catholics will have to fight, but against the powers and principalities of hell itself which seeks to destroy the Church. Satan still has a great deal of influence in trying to destroy the Church. ';But the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.';
Good works are integral to salvation, as the Council of Trent agreed. PeacebyJesus is mistaken.
Matthew 25 shows that we will be judged by our charitable works to the least of our brothers.
Romans 3-5 talks about faith as a vital step toward salvation. Nowhere does the scripture say we are saved by faith alone. The one mention of ';faith alone'; in James 2 says: ';You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT by faith alone.'; James also teaches that faith without works is dead, with no power to save us.
Reread Eph 2:8-10:
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith鈥攁nd this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God鈥攏ot by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
We don't earn salvation by the ';works'; of keeping the law, a constant theme in Paul's writings. But as verse 10 teaches, we are created to do good works. If we refuse the good works for which we are created, we have dead faith and we are not being saved.
The continuing Protestant insistence on faith without works is more than a misinterpretation: It is an evasion of the Christian responsibility to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, tend the sick, and in general, to become a servant to the needy.
Cheers,
Bruce
because Satan and his minions are behind the attacks and the majority of these people are the ones that are against baptism so they have no real conscience to help them fight off his attacks. The proof is in the pudding I would say. Just like Jesus said when he told them when they said that Abraham was their father that he (Abraham) wasn't their father---their father was the prince of lies---because if they were Abraham's children they would love him. If these people were actually children of the most high God they would not be so hateful towards Catholics. The Holy Spirit would counsel them but, they do not have the Holy Spirit. They are victims of another spirit.
To answer your first question: Why do people have to create straw men and lies about beliefs to attack, instead of attacking the true beliefs of Catholics?
The truth is, many non-Catholics are steeped in prejudice. They are content with hearing from a third party complainer about what we Catholics believe, and do not dare examine what we truly believe lest they may be influenced. The prejudice is blinding. Jesus contended with the same viewpoint. The scribes and pharisees had all kinds of imaginary accusations against him, with no evidence. They accepted false testimony rather than evaluated what Jesus was doing, what he was saying, and what wonderful things were occurring due to his teachings and works.
The fact is, Jesus himself established the church which spread from Rome to all the corners of the globe. If you oppose his church, you oppose him. He is in control of his body, the church. Our protestant brothers are deprived of the gifts and full fellowship of the church established by Jesus, as long as they imagine that we are the anti-Christ or believe some other ridiculous lie.
Here is the measuring stick of a follower of Jesus, whether Catholic or Protestant, because no group can claim 100% compliance with Christ's teachings: You will know them by their fruits.
Maybe these slanderers fear that the Church may actually be right or they would draw from primary sources in context like the Catechism or Dogmatic Constitutions of the Councils.
How do you tell the truth, in a loving way? If I knew that you were in a false religion, would you want me to ';attack'; you by letting you know. If a bomb was going to explode inside a large building and you knew about it, wouldn't you try to tell everyone so they could get out? Please take some time to explore what I am talking about at www.endtime.com (sincere thanks to you - my brother in Christ Jesus)
First off, read your own Catholic Encyclopedia on, Mary, Trinity, Christmas, Easter.
Then get back to me Honey. you are about to be shocked.
Now, who's church is HIS CHURCH????????
Jesus? God the Father? The POPE?
Who's church?????
Christ as our Savior NEVER would bare false witness.
So The Christ said two things.
Tho will not kill.
love thy neighbor as you love yourself.
and to His Apostles...MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD
explaining why REAL Christians who BELIEVE in CHRIST do not KILL in WAR, because WE believe that Christ, and His Father God Almighty will fix the earthly problems.
So as a False Christian, you have been duped into believing many Church Doctrines that go against early TRUE APOSTOLIC CHRISTIAN BELIEFS.
RE READ the Catholic encyclopedia.
Then read the Real word of God the BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!
As a former faithful Catholic, who left after i became born again, my experience has been that it is Catholics who are the most ignorant of their faith, and in addition, few really have a clue as to how radically different it is now than 1,000 years ago.
http://www.catholictreasures.com/article鈥?/a>
The council of Trent did teach works are meritorious for salvation, a denial of Romans 3-5, Titus 3:5; Eph. 2:8-10, and a misunderstanding of Ja. 2. And Catholic today believe they are in the one true church. Yet the authenticity of a true church or believer is not based upon ecclesiastical or physical lineage, but like that of a true Jews, it is based upon effectual faith in the gospel of grace, which Rome effectively, officially and effectually, denies.
Scripturally, the RC assumption of a papacy is not Biblical, In interpreting the gospels and thus Mt. 16 we are to look to their application and the doctrine behind them in the promised (Jn. 16:12-15) revelation of Christ in the rest of the New Testament. Searching therein we do not find even one command ever given to the New Testament church or churches to submit to Peter as a singular supreme pope, nor one example of them submitting to Peter as one (in Acts 15, James gives the definitive sentence), nor does Peter ever refer to himself as such, but as ';an'; elder and ';an'; apostle, and ';a servant'; (1Pt. 5:1; 2Pt. 1:1). And very critically, no where is there any provison made for a sicessor to Peter, unlike for that of pastors.
The papacy is patterned more after the manner of the autocratic Roman empire. Taking on the form of the empire in which it was found, it became a vast an autocratic (answerable to no one) institution, with it's own Caesario-papacy, that adds to the Bible and effectively it makes it a second class authority (after the ';Teaching Magisterium';). Thus were unScriptural doctrines like indulgences and novenas and prayers to saints adopted, and the Bible was effectively bound from the common people for hundreds of years, while later Bingo was loosed! Hence a autocratic Caesario -papacy that makes the Bible a second place authority to an autocratic pope and church.
Finally, the ultimate error of Rome is that of fostering dependence upon her supposed powers, as well as one's own merits, for salvation, rather than bringing souls to come before God as sinners, destitute of any merit whereby they may escape Hell and gain Heaven, and thus cast all their faith upon Christ and His blood for justification and regeneration (Rm. 3:9 - 5:8; Eph. 1:13; Titus 3:5).
And having turned from sin to Him, be baptized under water (Acts 8:37) and walk in newness of life (Rm. 6). And so glorify God alone!!*
I think you are putting the cart before the horse when attempting to link the Roman Catholic Church to scripture, with this claim, ';In the Bible the Catholic Church is called the ';bulwark and ground of the truth'; which will never fall into apostasy.';
What you need to understand is that many Christians do know the Catholic faith and do not believe it to be what it claims. I mean no ill will to you, but I do not believe that the Catholic Church teaches salvation as Christ did. In fact, I am quite certain that it doesn't.
I'm sure there are many spirit filled Catholics. Its some of their beliefs that just dont line up with the Bible! The biggest one I think, is praying to anyone besides Jesus Christ. There is only one mediator. And there is no purgatory. That's really all I need, to stay clear.
Dont they pray to Mary?
Please show me scripture
In Christianity, is disdain for false or errorneous doctrines also disdain for God?
It seems I have to accept the doctrines lest I become disdainful to the LORD. Why is that?
Makes me wonder if we worship the same God sometimes.In Christianity, is disdain for false or errorneous doctrines also disdain for God?
Well, even the Bible tell us this: “Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.” (Ephesians 5:11)
The problem with that is every denomination and sometimes every person interprets the Bible differently. And they will all tell you that they are right and everyone else is wrong. This is why we have to turn inwards and connect with God. If we accept Christ and we are sincere in asking for forgiveness for our sins, we will receive Jesus in our life. He will send the Holy Spirit which is our guide to discerning what is true and not true. We discern what is true by the fruits of their beliefs or actions. Bad fruit cannot come from a good tree.In Christianity, is disdain for false or errorneous doctrines also disdain for God?
To love god is an internal thing; who alive today has the authority to answer this question for you besides yourself?
Fundamentalists are the only people who try to say that. Maybe fundamentalists worship their own doctrines and their own KJV bibles INSTEAD of the Living God.
There is no doubt in my mind that I do not worship the same God as these fundamentalists.
Annuit Coeptis Novus Ordo Seclorum . I'm a rebell. One God .
GOD BLESS
that may be the way that most denominations see it, but i dont see it that way at all. doctrines that you may see as false or erroneous may be integral parts of someone else's belief system . just because you believe differently than other christians doesn't make you any less of a christian. it just means you're different.
To a false prophet? Yes.
God does not hold the same opinion.
Makes me wonder if we worship the same God sometimes.In Christianity, is disdain for false or errorneous doctrines also disdain for God?
Well, even the Bible tell us this: “Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.” (Ephesians 5:11)
The problem with that is every denomination and sometimes every person interprets the Bible differently. And they will all tell you that they are right and everyone else is wrong. This is why we have to turn inwards and connect with God. If we accept Christ and we are sincere in asking for forgiveness for our sins, we will receive Jesus in our life. He will send the Holy Spirit which is our guide to discerning what is true and not true. We discern what is true by the fruits of their beliefs or actions. Bad fruit cannot come from a good tree.In Christianity, is disdain for false or errorneous doctrines also disdain for God?
To love god is an internal thing; who alive today has the authority to answer this question for you besides yourself?
Fundamentalists are the only people who try to say that. Maybe fundamentalists worship their own doctrines and their own KJV bibles INSTEAD of the Living God.
There is no doubt in my mind that I do not worship the same God as these fundamentalists.
Annuit Coeptis Novus Ordo Seclorum . I'm a rebell. One God .
GOD BLESS
that may be the way that most denominations see it, but i dont see it that way at all. doctrines that you may see as false or erroneous may be integral parts of someone else's belief system . just because you believe differently than other christians doesn't make you any less of a christian. it just means you're different.
To a false prophet? Yes.
God does not hold the same opinion.
Dear 7th Day Adventist. I have a question just for you. Can you Kindly tell explian to me your False doctrines?
You all say that Micheal the Archangel and Jesus Christ are one in the same? Please look up Rev. 12:7 %26amp; Jude 9 for the real truth. Micheal took Lucifers Place as head Angel when God threw out Satan from heaven. The Bible is plain on False teachers and False Prophets so please restudy. I may not be perfect either but I will look it up for myself 2 Tim 2:15. Have a Blessed DayDear 7th Day Adventist. I have a question just for you. Can you Kindly tell explian to me your False doctrines?
Sad to say 'they' are in yet another Cult and still stick with the old testament on top of that.Dear 7th Day Adventist. I have a question just for you. Can you Kindly tell explian to me your False doctrines?
You are confused. That is the Jehovah's witnesses which believe that lie. Seventh Day Adventists believe in the Deity of Christ, and the other key doctrines of the Christian faith. They tend to be legalistic about some things, such as Sabbath worship, but they are a part of the true church.
you are thinking of JW
Um, I don't think it's false to them.acne scar
Sad to say 'they' are in yet another Cult and still stick with the old testament on top of that.Dear 7th Day Adventist. I have a question just for you. Can you Kindly tell explian to me your False doctrines?
You are confused. That is the Jehovah's witnesses which believe that lie. Seventh Day Adventists believe in the Deity of Christ, and the other key doctrines of the Christian faith. They tend to be legalistic about some things, such as Sabbath worship, but they are a part of the true church.
you are thinking of JW
Um, I don't think it's false to them.
Catholics: do you believed the Holy Words of God? If you say yes then why not scrutinized your false doctrines?
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Examined yourselves do you really believed God's Holy Words or the words of your leaders? your catechism? I know for a fact that Catholic believed that their leaders is vicar for Christ but what verse in the Holy Words of God that can truly justify such claim and belief? if Catholic can show me the verse that could support such claim then every question i asks or answers i submit you can delete all for your own pleasure and rejoice because you have proven your pope is vicar(Vicar
VIC'AR, n. [L. vicarius, from vicis, a turn, or its root.]
1. In a general sense, a person deputed or authorized to perform the functions of another; a substitute in office. The pope pretends to be vicar of Jesus Christ on earth. He has under him a grand vicar, who is a cardinal, and whose jurisdiction extends over all priests, regular and secular.)
As Christ Jesus said; Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Act 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
Act 4:9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Besides, if Catholic claimed Apostle Peter as their first pope then why Apostle Peter said; Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.Catholics: do you believed the Holy Words of God? If you say yes then why not scrutinized your false doctrines?
The man is asking catholics to examine what they believe in. He is doing Gods work. If you see a sheep lost, it is your duty to do so. Just the same, it is your duty to open your mind as well to what you your self are wrong about. This is what a christian is asked to do. What purpose does it serve one to seek God, but take the wrong path.Catholics: do you believed the Holy Words of God? If you say yes then why not scrutinized your false doctrines?
Why do you make false claims against them? They do follow the word of God.
God would frown upon what you are doing right now. Shame on you.
Why do you hate Christians?
You forgot to put in the main quote in 2 Thessalonians chapter two about the man of lawlessness who sets himself up in God's temple proclaiming himself to be God. There should not be in my mind any division between clergy and laity because we are all one in Christ Jesus-Galatianss chapter 3. I know I will upset Roman Catholics but it really makes me want to vomit when they go on about making a saint of Mary Mac Killop. Mr Rudd, Australia's Prime Minister) made a famous stop over in Rome so he could garner some votes on his way back to Australia because he did not get his way at the Copenhagen Climate conference.
I'm not Catholic, and I've never been Catholic. Up until just a couple years ago, I was moderately anti-Catholic, actually. I felt that they were Christians, but I also believed that they had a lot of unbiblical and false doctrines. What changed? I studied it for myself, instead of taking the word of other people.
Nothing you've stated here goes against any Catholic belief or doctrine. The Pope is actually considered the apostolic successor of Peter, who was given the keys to heaven and Earth by Jesus Christ Himself. Peter was chosen to give direction to the budding Christian church. Why would Jesus leave His Holy Church without any kind of central leadership? Do you really think that He intended for us to be splintered into 30,000+ sects (and counting), fighting amongst ourselves? We act just like the apostles did, when they were arguing who was the greatest. ';WE are the one true church!'; ';No, WE are! Those other people have false beliefs!'; ';You guys are both wrong, WE are the one true church!'; Meanwhile, non-Christians see how we fight each other, and they say, ';Where is this peace that Jesus is supposed to provide? There's nothing but strife amongst His followers.';
How disappointed in us is Jesus going to be when He comes back? We act just like children. It's past time for us to instead be one body of Christ, regardless of denomination. It's okay for us to disagree, but when we start making up lies about other denominations' doctrines and expounding them as false when they may or may not be, we're sinning. Paul warned us against these things, didn't he? Believers who stir up strife against their brothers? And isn't something like this in the OT too, where God said that He HATES that kind of behavior? Maybe we should watch ourselves. I wouldn't want to do something that God HATES, would you?
Why do some Christians attack those of other denominations? It only makes atheists like me even more grateful not to be a part of religion.
I to want to know why Catholics call the pope God. When you here them say Holy Father do you think of God or the Pope?
Jesus used the name only once in the Bible when he was talking to God, so Why do they Call the Pope God?
Here's a new Commandment of God that he just passed on to me...
';Thou Shalt Not...
...Go Crazy with the bible quotes in a very frenetic and agitated way, accusing an entire vaguely lumped group of people have having an ';opinion'; different than your's (which is what ';your'; case is, and ';opinion';) and thou shalt not be a hypocrite, which is when you accuse somebody of the very same thing that you yourself are guilty of...now...
I forgive you for being rude to ';Catholics'; and taking on a ';My Way or The Highway'; bad attitude, and so does God because he's a real cool dude that way, but that ';doth not'; mean that you are allowed to be impolite about this debate in the future...
Now say 3 hail whatevers, look at yourself in the mirror from time to time and realize thou shalt not judge lest ye be judged, thou not shalt throw stones or point fingers at people or notice the sticks in their eyes when you have a log in your own, I believe Jesus was trying to teach that, remember?
call me dumb but i have no idea what you're trying to ask
:faith is believing something that has not been proven
answer mine?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?鈥?/a>
Protestants belief鈥檚 are anti-Biblical and Satanic.
Their churches didn鈥檛 start until 1500鈥?years after Christ
They express their imbecility with poorly trained Protestant Ministers making their own top ten list for salvation .And Preach the Gospel according to themselves. Which is fraudulent theology and errant preaching which becomes inane protestant rants and not scripture.. Which crafts their own versions of Faith.
They are just charlatans plain and simple
Sola Scriptura cant be found in the bible. No Christian or Jew ever practiced it or dreamt it up.
Once saved always saved cant be found in the Bible. No Christian or Jew ever practiced it or dreamt it up.
They commandeered the word Christian coined by a Catholic in the Books of Acts to Describe catholic belief. Then say Catholics aren鈥檛 Christian and stole their word to describe their satanic beliefs.
They Deleted Inspired books from the Bible and believe a Council of Jews Had the authority to set the Cannon of the Christian Bible. The Jews at the Council removed ever vestige of Christian teaching at the time to put down the Christian Faith . Which include most of the prophesy of the Messiah Jesus contained in these books the first Christians were using. They even named a Jewish Messiah at this counsel Jamima.
They Changed the Listing and wording of the Ten Commandments written in the Bible.
They Believe the Bible to be the Inspired word of God . It says that no place in Scripture It is a catholic Teaching not a Jewish or protestant teaching.
They believe the Old Testament to be inspired It says that no place in Scripture.
They believe a few Lines of scripture Is all that you need to be saved in spite of numerous verses to the contrary.
They only believe in a few lines of scripture not the whole of the bible.
Their churches were all formed by the Opinion of one Man.
None of their churches teach the same doctrine or dogma.
They have Homo Pastors and priest鈥檚
They have women Pastors and Priests
They have same sex marriages in their churches.
Some believe in Baptism some don鈥檛 contrary to Christ鈥檚 commands.
Their worship is nothing like the first Christian鈥檚 worship of God and Christ.
They believe you can sin as much as you like and be saved.
They preach a prosperity gospel and steal from their flock.
They sell trinkets to get your prayers answered.
They sell water to heal you.
They come up with strange practices like soaking ,Side hugs, words of wisdom, On demand prophesizing ,
Being pregnant with a miracle, Prayer towers, Altars to wave their hands over prayer requests, Untold heresy鈥檚 to get your money and get you on a mailing list..Some require you to speak in tongues to prove your filled with the Holy Spirit and are a Christian.
Some give you a test before they will baptize you.
None preach the whole of the Gospel and teach bigotry and hate in their churches their service consists of a homily on one line of scripture. With a whole lot of trash spoken and self interpretation
They have no idea who coined the word Bible and will only give you their definition of it.
They have no Bishops as defined in the Bible or church hierarchy.
Most don鈥檛 have any requirements to become a pastor.
Their worship service is for entertainment and not worship.
They constantly lie about other faiths even though they are proved wrong, they worship a Unity of Hate instead of Love.
well ahem, as I have attempted to show Truth as He desires, it has accomplished nothing but harsh feelings and bitterness from some :-(although we care, we must reflect and be sensitive to those who may not understand His Holy Truths, I'm praying and still trying to put the Truth out there/here, but in a different way dear :-) I once was a catholic and have many family members through marriages that are catholics and they truly are wonderful peoples, it is a process though when speaking Religious beliefs with them, but no foul :-) I think it's easier when your face to face and can put tones and body language %26amp; smiles with your conversation, much unlike here on R%26amp;S ...God Bless
Wow... I find it amusing how you are an anti-catholic and believe you understand the teachings of Catholicism, which by what you have posted you know nothing at all.
This is going to be another typical argument between reasonable people and stubborn fundamentalists if you know what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx4V1Olle鈥?/a>
Nobody gave a real answer to your question. Im not either, sorry.
But dear asker, have you considered the sacrament of communion? It is practiced in some form by most protestant churches, and is not biblically founded. Emerson wrote an interesting sermon on the subject, 'The Lords Supper' before leaving the pulpit. Id bet youd enjoy it.
Cricket, Ive read a couple of your response, and they have all been thoughtful and well written. But I do hold that we should ensure that all our doctrine is biblically based. The unexamined life is not worth living, the same is true of unexamined faith.
I see people gave Hames a thumbs down? Why would you do that? His answer is not low quality! Its thoughtful and addresses yalls comments if not the question per se,
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Examined yourselves do you really believed God's Holy Words or the words of your leaders? your catechism? I know for a fact that Catholic believed that their leaders is vicar for Christ but what verse in the Holy Words of God that can truly justify such claim and belief? if Catholic can show me the verse that could support such claim then every question i asks or answers i submit you can delete all for your own pleasure and rejoice because you have proven your pope is vicar(Vicar
VIC'AR, n. [L. vicarius, from vicis, a turn, or its root.]
1. In a general sense, a person deputed or authorized to perform the functions of another; a substitute in office. The pope pretends to be vicar of Jesus Christ on earth. He has under him a grand vicar, who is a cardinal, and whose jurisdiction extends over all priests, regular and secular.)
As Christ Jesus said; Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Act 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
Act 4:9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Besides, if Catholic claimed Apostle Peter as their first pope then why Apostle Peter said; Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.Catholics: do you believed the Holy Words of God? If you say yes then why not scrutinized your false doctrines?
The man is asking catholics to examine what they believe in. He is doing Gods work. If you see a sheep lost, it is your duty to do so. Just the same, it is your duty to open your mind as well to what you your self are wrong about. This is what a christian is asked to do. What purpose does it serve one to seek God, but take the wrong path.Catholics: do you believed the Holy Words of God? If you say yes then why not scrutinized your false doctrines?
Why do you make false claims against them? They do follow the word of God.
God would frown upon what you are doing right now. Shame on you.
Why do you hate Christians?
You forgot to put in the main quote in 2 Thessalonians chapter two about the man of lawlessness who sets himself up in God's temple proclaiming himself to be God. There should not be in my mind any division between clergy and laity because we are all one in Christ Jesus-Galatianss chapter 3. I know I will upset Roman Catholics but it really makes me want to vomit when they go on about making a saint of Mary Mac Killop. Mr Rudd, Australia's Prime Minister) made a famous stop over in Rome so he could garner some votes on his way back to Australia because he did not get his way at the Copenhagen Climate conference.
I'm not Catholic, and I've never been Catholic. Up until just a couple years ago, I was moderately anti-Catholic, actually. I felt that they were Christians, but I also believed that they had a lot of unbiblical and false doctrines. What changed? I studied it for myself, instead of taking the word of other people.
Nothing you've stated here goes against any Catholic belief or doctrine. The Pope is actually considered the apostolic successor of Peter, who was given the keys to heaven and Earth by Jesus Christ Himself. Peter was chosen to give direction to the budding Christian church. Why would Jesus leave His Holy Church without any kind of central leadership? Do you really think that He intended for us to be splintered into 30,000+ sects (and counting), fighting amongst ourselves? We act just like the apostles did, when they were arguing who was the greatest. ';WE are the one true church!'; ';No, WE are! Those other people have false beliefs!'; ';You guys are both wrong, WE are the one true church!'; Meanwhile, non-Christians see how we fight each other, and they say, ';Where is this peace that Jesus is supposed to provide? There's nothing but strife amongst His followers.';
How disappointed in us is Jesus going to be when He comes back? We act just like children. It's past time for us to instead be one body of Christ, regardless of denomination. It's okay for us to disagree, but when we start making up lies about other denominations' doctrines and expounding them as false when they may or may not be, we're sinning. Paul warned us against these things, didn't he? Believers who stir up strife against their brothers? And isn't something like this in the OT too, where God said that He HATES that kind of behavior? Maybe we should watch ourselves. I wouldn't want to do something that God HATES, would you?
Why do some Christians attack those of other denominations? It only makes atheists like me even more grateful not to be a part of religion.
I to want to know why Catholics call the pope God. When you here them say Holy Father do you think of God or the Pope?
Jesus used the name only once in the Bible when he was talking to God, so Why do they Call the Pope God?
Here's a new Commandment of God that he just passed on to me...
';Thou Shalt Not...
...Go Crazy with the bible quotes in a very frenetic and agitated way, accusing an entire vaguely lumped group of people have having an ';opinion'; different than your's (which is what ';your'; case is, and ';opinion';) and thou shalt not be a hypocrite, which is when you accuse somebody of the very same thing that you yourself are guilty of...now...
I forgive you for being rude to ';Catholics'; and taking on a ';My Way or The Highway'; bad attitude, and so does God because he's a real cool dude that way, but that ';doth not'; mean that you are allowed to be impolite about this debate in the future...
Now say 3 hail whatevers, look at yourself in the mirror from time to time and realize thou shalt not judge lest ye be judged, thou not shalt throw stones or point fingers at people or notice the sticks in their eyes when you have a log in your own, I believe Jesus was trying to teach that, remember?
call me dumb but i have no idea what you're trying to ask
:faith is believing something that has not been proven
answer mine?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?鈥?/a>
Protestants belief鈥檚 are anti-Biblical and Satanic.
Their churches didn鈥檛 start until 1500鈥?years after Christ
They express their imbecility with poorly trained Protestant Ministers making their own top ten list for salvation .And Preach the Gospel according to themselves. Which is fraudulent theology and errant preaching which becomes inane protestant rants and not scripture.. Which crafts their own versions of Faith.
They are just charlatans plain and simple
Sola Scriptura cant be found in the bible. No Christian or Jew ever practiced it or dreamt it up.
Once saved always saved cant be found in the Bible. No Christian or Jew ever practiced it or dreamt it up.
They commandeered the word Christian coined by a Catholic in the Books of Acts to Describe catholic belief. Then say Catholics aren鈥檛 Christian and stole their word to describe their satanic beliefs.
They Deleted Inspired books from the Bible and believe a Council of Jews Had the authority to set the Cannon of the Christian Bible. The Jews at the Council removed ever vestige of Christian teaching at the time to put down the Christian Faith . Which include most of the prophesy of the Messiah Jesus contained in these books the first Christians were using. They even named a Jewish Messiah at this counsel Jamima.
They Changed the Listing and wording of the Ten Commandments written in the Bible.
They Believe the Bible to be the Inspired word of God . It says that no place in Scripture It is a catholic Teaching not a Jewish or protestant teaching.
They believe the Old Testament to be inspired It says that no place in Scripture.
They believe a few Lines of scripture Is all that you need to be saved in spite of numerous verses to the contrary.
They only believe in a few lines of scripture not the whole of the bible.
Their churches were all formed by the Opinion of one Man.
None of their churches teach the same doctrine or dogma.
They have Homo Pastors and priest鈥檚
They have women Pastors and Priests
They have same sex marriages in their churches.
Some believe in Baptism some don鈥檛 contrary to Christ鈥檚 commands.
Their worship is nothing like the first Christian鈥檚 worship of God and Christ.
They believe you can sin as much as you like and be saved.
They preach a prosperity gospel and steal from their flock.
They sell trinkets to get your prayers answered.
They sell water to heal you.
They come up with strange practices like soaking ,Side hugs, words of wisdom, On demand prophesizing ,
Being pregnant with a miracle, Prayer towers, Altars to wave their hands over prayer requests, Untold heresy鈥檚 to get your money and get you on a mailing list..Some require you to speak in tongues to prove your filled with the Holy Spirit and are a Christian.
Some give you a test before they will baptize you.
None preach the whole of the Gospel and teach bigotry and hate in their churches their service consists of a homily on one line of scripture. With a whole lot of trash spoken and self interpretation
They have no idea who coined the word Bible and will only give you their definition of it.
They have no Bishops as defined in the Bible or church hierarchy.
Most don鈥檛 have any requirements to become a pastor.
Their worship service is for entertainment and not worship.
They constantly lie about other faiths even though they are proved wrong, they worship a Unity of Hate instead of Love.
well ahem, as I have attempted to show Truth as He desires, it has accomplished nothing but harsh feelings and bitterness from some :-(although we care, we must reflect and be sensitive to those who may not understand His Holy Truths, I'm praying and still trying to put the Truth out there/here, but in a different way dear :-) I once was a catholic and have many family members through marriages that are catholics and they truly are wonderful peoples, it is a process though when speaking Religious beliefs with them, but no foul :-) I think it's easier when your face to face and can put tones and body language %26amp; smiles with your conversation, much unlike here on R%26amp;S ...God Bless
Wow... I find it amusing how you are an anti-catholic and believe you understand the teachings of Catholicism, which by what you have posted you know nothing at all.
This is going to be another typical argument between reasonable people and stubborn fundamentalists if you know what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx4V1Olle鈥?/a>
Nobody gave a real answer to your question. Im not either, sorry.
But dear asker, have you considered the sacrament of communion? It is practiced in some form by most protestant churches, and is not biblically founded. Emerson wrote an interesting sermon on the subject, 'The Lords Supper' before leaving the pulpit. Id bet youd enjoy it.
Cricket, Ive read a couple of your response, and they have all been thoughtful and well written. But I do hold that we should ensure that all our doctrine is biblically based. The unexamined life is not worth living, the same is true of unexamined faith.
I see people gave Hames a thumbs down? Why would you do that? His answer is not low quality! Its thoughtful and addresses yalls comments if not the question per se,
Do you think that the beast religious rules will be all the false doctrines & regulations left behind after th
rapture of the Church?
The extra man made rules %26amp; regulations %26amp; false doctrines that have snuck in Churches or are other cults that have basically rejected the power of the cross (The Redeeming Power of the shed blood of Christ Jesus).
That these will rule as the antichrist or the harlot of abomination? And there will be rules to take the mark (666) to purchase or sell %26amp; to bow to the beast or have your head cut off.Do you think that the beast religious rules will be all the false doctrines %26amp; regulations left behind after th
and he will separate the wheat from the chafe...
and the chafe shall be burned up....
many false doctrines and false theologies..the left behind fallacy,LDS,JW, and westboro of courseDo you think that the beast religious rules will be all the false doctrines %26amp; regulations left behind after th
Didn't anyone tell you, the rapture happened last week. Jesus came and took all the worthy people to heaven.
All the Buddhists are gone.
Love and blessings Don
You are Peter, and I can guarantee that on this rock I will build my church. And the gates of hell will not overpower it.'; Matthew 16:18
The Roman Catholic Church is guaranteed by Christ to be protected when teaching faith and morals through the Holy Spirit. God bless.
you just beasted with this question..
and god doesnt exist, neither does any of that bible stuff
I want whatever you're having.
You read too much misinterpretation and superstition. By the way, its 616, not 666. 616 is in the oldest in most reliable texts, 666 was a misprint (mis-scribing).
no I don麓t think so I麓m not so pessimistic.
The extra man made rules %26amp; regulations %26amp; false doctrines that have snuck in Churches or are other cults that have basically rejected the power of the cross (The Redeeming Power of the shed blood of Christ Jesus).
That these will rule as the antichrist or the harlot of abomination? And there will be rules to take the mark (666) to purchase or sell %26amp; to bow to the beast or have your head cut off.Do you think that the beast religious rules will be all the false doctrines %26amp; regulations left behind after th
and he will separate the wheat from the chafe...
and the chafe shall be burned up....
many false doctrines and false theologies..the left behind fallacy,LDS,JW, and westboro of courseDo you think that the beast religious rules will be all the false doctrines %26amp; regulations left behind after th
Didn't anyone tell you, the rapture happened last week. Jesus came and took all the worthy people to heaven.
All the Buddhists are gone.
Love and blessings Don
You are Peter, and I can guarantee that on this rock I will build my church. And the gates of hell will not overpower it.'; Matthew 16:18
The Roman Catholic Church is guaranteed by Christ to be protected when teaching faith and morals through the Holy Spirit. God bless.
you just beasted with this question..
and god doesnt exist, neither does any of that bible stuff
I want whatever you're having.
You read too much misinterpretation and superstition. By the way, its 616, not 666. 616 is in the oldest in most reliable texts, 666 was a misprint (mis-scribing).
no I don麓t think so I麓m not so pessimistic.
Roman Ctholics: how would you reconcile these verses to your many false doctrines?
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. That each one of us is accountable to God Most High, Lord Jesus Christ, 1Peter 4:5.
False doctrines of Roman Catholics like:
1. confessing to a priest for forgiveness of sin (claiming John 20, yet those powers were given to the Apostles of Christ Jesus and can't be done by ordinary people other than the apostles).
2. Praying and asking the help of dead saints, even mary the wife of joseph (thus you're claiming the prayers of saints in Revelation yet it's all about they're asking God to avenge their persecutor, Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? ) On the other prayers, it is already written in a book , Revelation 5:6-8. The other prayers of saints is all about praising God yet did not even mentioned any prayers from them asking their kin, relatives or friends to be saved, Revelation 4:8.
3. believing in purgatory (refuted by Daniel 12:1-2; 1thessalonians 4:13-17)
4. praying to mary (refuted by Luke 1:30-51)
5. praying for the dead to be saved (refuted by Ecclesiastes 9:4-5; Romans 10:13; Romans 14:11-12)
6. and so many others like the partaking of the bread which is also refuted by (luke 22:19)
7. also baptism of infants(refuted by acts 8:37, that those who submit to baptism is only in obedience to the calling of God, meaning they're saved already before hand and how can an infant can know the Savior Jesus Christ?)
Besides, when apostle Paul still alive he admonished each one to pray without ceasing? 1Thessalonians 5:16-18, and yet how can he asked those already been dead for so long to pray without ceasing? Can you show any verses in the Holy Words of God telling the dead one to pray for their relative that still on earth?
Luk 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
This is a classic example of a dead one praying and asking favor for his relatives , brothers that he knows will not able to make if no one will tell them. but did you noticed the answer of father abraham? in verse 29-31?Roman Ctholics: how would you reconcile these verses to your many false doctrines?
amen it is about the lord jesus christ not a religion or set of beliefs.Roman Ctholics: how would you reconcile these verses to your many false doctrines?
You underestimate the detailed theological arguments that the Roman church have put forward to support their heresies. Waste of time discussing them.
Don't rag on the catholics, their beliefs are just as rational as yours are.
Boy oh Boy where do I start
1/ Acts 1:15-26 - the first thing Peter does after Jesus ascends into heaven is implement apostolic succession. Matthias is ordained with full apostolic authority. Only the Catholic Church can demonstrate an unbroken apostolic lineage to the apostles in union with Peter through the sacrament of ordination and thereby claim to teach with Christ's own authority
Acts 6:6 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority has transferred beyond the original twelve apostles as the Church has grown.
Acts 9:17-19 - even Paul, who was directly chosen by Christ, only becomes a minister after the laying on of hands by a bishop. This is a powerful proof-text for the necessity of sacramental ordination in order to be a legitimate successor of the apostles.
Acts 13:3 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority must come from a Catholic bishop.
Acts 14:23 - the apostles and newly-ordained men appointed elders to have authority throughout the Church
2 Tim. 2:2 - this verse shows God's intention is to transfer authority to successors (here, Paul to Timothy to 3rd to 4th generation). It goes beyond the death of the apostles.
2/ God is the God of the living not the dead. The saints who have gone before us are alive in heaven
Eph. 3:14-15- we are all one family (';Catholic';) in heaven and on earth, united together, as children of the Father, through Jesus Christ. Our brothers and sisters who have gone to heaven before us are not a different family. We are one and the same family. This is why, in the Apostles Creed, we profess a belief in the ';communion of saints.'; There cannot be a ';communion'; if there is no union. Loving beings, whether on earth or in heaven, are concerned for other beings, and this concern is reflected spiritually through prayers for one another.
Rom. 8:35-39 - therefore, death does not separate the family of God and the love of Christ. We are still united with each other, even beyond death.
Matt. 17:3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30 - Jesus converses with ';deceased'; Moses and Elijah. They are more alive than the saints on earth.
Matt. 22:32; Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead. The living on earth and in heaven are one family.
Luke 15:7,10 – if the angels and saints experience joy in heaven over our repentance, then they are still connected to us and are aware of our behavior.
3/ Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.
Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, ';be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.'; We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.
Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.
Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.
Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God's graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.
The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.
1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for ';suffer loss'; in the Greek is ';zemiothesetai.'; The root word is ';zemioo'; which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).
1 Cor. 3:15 – further, Paul writes “he himself will be saved, ';but only'; (or “yet so”) as through fire.” “He will be saved” in the Greek is “sothesetai” (which means eternal salvation). The phrase ';but only'; (or “yet so”) in the Greek is ';houtos'; which means ';in the same manner.'; This means that man is both eternally rewarded and eternally saved in the same manner by fire.
1 Cor. 3:13 - when Paul writes about God revealing the quality of each man's work by fire and purifying him, this purification relates to his sins (not just his good works). Protestants, in attempting to disprove the reality of purgatory, argue that Paul was only writing about rewarding good works, and not punishing sins (because punishing and purifying a man from sins would be admitting that there is a purgatory).
4/ Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. ';This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to his death';; it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:
Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother's heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: ';Woman, behold your son.';
The Gospel reveals to us how Mary prays and intercedes in faith. At Cana, the mother of Jesus asks her son for the needs of a wedding feast; this is the sign of another feast - that of the wedding of the Lamb where he gives his body and blood at the request of the Church, his Bride. It is at the hour of the New Covenant, at the foot of the cross, that Mary is heard as the Woman, the new Eve, the true ';Mother of all the living.';
5/ already taken care of
6/
I'm not done yet
Let's say the Lords Prayer that you might spend your time more productively
Your protests invoke a false doctrine called ';sola scriptura'; which is not biblical.
1. Yes those powers were given to the Apostles. Where in the Bible does it tell us that it ended with the Apostles? Why would Christ give something as important as that to only 12 people, and then have that power fade out with their deaths? They also had the power to baptize, and yet others baptize today and you have no problem with that. The Holy Spirit was ONLY given to the Apostles as well, would you say that ended with their deaths as well? You have no basis for choosing some things the Apostles were given and did as still being valid today and discarding other things that don't fit you beliefs.
Whenever Christ mentions the authority to ';loose and bind'; it is also the only time he mentions the Church. This means that power was given to Peter (first) and the Apostles, in conjunction with their alignment with the Church Christ established.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/confess…
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/primacy…
2. So? What it tells us is that Saints are in heaven and they are praising God. Paul tells us that intercessory prayer is good and pleasing to God. Mary and the Saints are not dead, they have salvation and eternal life in Christ. Asking any member of the Body of Christ to pray for us is ';pleasing to God.'; It does not say that only the prayers of the sinful living on earth are pleasing, it does not differentiate in the Bible. We know that the disciples of Christ and his Mother Mary, must be in heaven with him. They are one with us in Christ and therefore, can pray for us. It makes perfect sense.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/blessed…
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/saints.…
3. It says ';many of those'; who sleep in the earth...not that
ALL will sleep in the earth. When the time of tribulation begins, those who die will sleep until Christ comes again. But we know that others did not. Christ descended into hell and released the souls who had awaited him. Obviously they were not ';asleep in the earth.';
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/purgato…
4. Luke 1:30-51 does not refute praying to Mary. I can't even imagine why you think it does.
5. We don't pray for the dead to be saved. They cannot be saved. But we do pray for the dead who ARE saved, but in purgatory, that their time in purgatory will be less. All souls in purgatory are already saved. This is and always has been the teaching of the Church. So you are not telling us anything we didn't already know.
6. Wrong again in your interpretation of Luke 22:19.
7. Right, when an adult is baptized they must proclaim belief. When an infant is baptized, their promise is made by their parents on their behalf and the grace of baptism is conferred through the parents to the infant. When the child is old enough he/she can make a decision to follow Christ or not. During the Acts of the Apostles, all the ';new converts to Christianity'; were adults because it was a new faith. There were no babies born into Christian families yet. But we do know households were baptized, and certainly this included children. Additionally, we know the early Christians practiced infant baptism, certainly they knew what to do since they had been taught by the Apostles directly. One more thing, Paul compares baptism to circumcision. Infants were brought into the covenant the Jewish people had with God and the sign was circumcision. This was ordered by God. Any man who converted to the Jewish faith had to proclaim the faith and be circumcised, but obviously infants didn't. Paul says that baptism replaces circumcision. God required infants to be circumcized, so it stands to reason that infants should be baptized and brought into the new covenant. Plus, no where in the Bible is the baptizing of infants forbidden.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/baptism…
%26lt;%26lt;Can you show any verses in the Holy Words of God telling the dead one to pray for their relative that still on earth?%26gt;%26gt;
Can you show any verses that say those who have gone before us and are alive in Christ, cannot pray for us? John 3:16 says ';For whosoever believes in me will not die, but have eternal life.'; Those who believe in him have eternal life, why do you say they do not? Why do you say they are dead?
All of your ';protests'; are classic, old and successfully refuted over and over by the Catholic Church.
One question at a time. I do not have time to read a book Chris!
You will find ALL your answers here:http://www.cwo.com/~pentrack/catholic/ap…
Please remember that the Bible remains a Catholic Holy Book, compiled, written, and certified by the Catholic Church, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and reflecting only authentic Catholic beliefs and practices.
Anyone who attempts to interpret it in any other way is simply mistaken.
http://douglawrence.wordpress.com/
I'm not clear on the purpose of your long argument.
Was your purpose to show us your superior knowledge of the scriptures?
Was it an attempt to put down your brothers and sisters in Christ?
Was it offered in an attempt to change the minds of those you are attacking?
I recognize your ability to search the scriptures and to type. I understand that you feel strongly enough about this to argue, but I do not feel the Love of Christ in your words.
If you do not love...........
1. Confession
Some claim that confessing to a priest is not biblical. In John 20, we read of Christ appearing to the disciples on Easter Sunday. He breathed on the apostles giving them the authority to forgive, and not to forgive. This means they had to hear the sins in order to forgive/not forgive. Jesus then says “as the Father has sent me, so I send you”. This means the apostles are to continue Christ’s mission, the essence of which is the forgiveness of sins. In 2 Corinthians, St. Paul describes the apostles as ambassadors of Christ’s work of reconciliation. In the Epistle of James we read that the presbyters (priests) are called to pray for the sick and forgive their sins. Why are priests called to perform this task? Obviously, the priests have an authority that ordinary Christians do not.
It is clear that Christ gave the apostles the power to forgive sins.
The Sacrament of Reconciliation is one of the seven sacraments Christ gave his church. The Sacrament of Reconciliation is also known as the Sacrament of Penance or Confession. This sacrament can set us free from our sins, and from the burden of guilt that comes along with our sins. Through the Sacrament of Reconciliation – confession – we are brought back into union with God. Our sins separate and damage our relationship with our Lord, and it is through this most powerful sacrament that our relationship with the Lord is repaired and strengthened. Through the Sacrament of Reconciliation we can walk more closely with the Lord once again, without the burden of our sins weighing us down and distancing our relationship with God.
Some ask why Catholics confess to a priest rather than just going straight to God. Some claim that confessing to a priest is not biblical. But that is not true.
We confess to a priest because that is the way Jesus instigated the sacrament. It is at his command that we confess to one another. When we sin against the Father our sins also affect our Christian family. Confessing sins to a priest is something that was a universal practice and never debated in the Early Church.
Jesus himself was able to heal not only the physically sick, but the spiritually sick as well. Christ had the power to forgive sins (see Matthew 9:1-8; Mark 2:5-12).
He passed on that power to forgive sins in his name to his Apostles.
';Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again, I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.'; (Matthew 18:18-19)
';Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I sent you.'; And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, ';Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.'; (John 20:21-23)
Jesus entrusted his Church with the power of forgiving sins through this most wonderful sacrament. The priest is simply the one who acts in persona Christi (in the person of Christ) in the confessional, but it is our Lord who forgives our sins. The priest grants absolution (sets us free from our sins) using the power Jesus entrusted to his Church. It is through Christ, however, that our sins are forgiven.
St. Paul tells us, ';And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us.'; (2 Corinthians 5: 18-20)
Does this mean that we shouldn’t speak and pray directly to God and express sorrow for our sins? Not at all! In fact for daily faults that is exactly what we should be doing. But for more serious offenses, for grave and mortal sins, we must repent and confess through the Sacrament of Reconciliation because that is what Christ commands us to do.
Reconciliation (also known as Confession and Penance): Penance is a Sacrament in which the sins committed after Baptism are forgiven.
Biblical references: Matt 9:2-8; Jn 20:22-23; 2 Cor 5:17-20; James 5:13-16;
Matt 18:18; 1 Jn 5:16
2.Intersession of Saints
The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.
Thus in Psalm 103, we pray, ';Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!'; (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalm 148 we pray, ';Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!'; (Ps. 148:1-2)
Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In Revelation, John sees that ';the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, eac
You really should break this up into separate questions. I would like to give you detailed answers but Y!A now limits the lengths of our answers.
In addition to the many good biblical references addressed in other answers, the Catholic Church does not use Holy Scripture as the only basis of doctrine. It could not. The early Catholic church existed before and during the time that the New Testament was written.
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. (John 16:12-13)
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. (2 Thessalonians 2:15)
We instruct you, brothers, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus Christ,to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us. (2 Thessalonians 3:6)
I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you. (1 Corinthians 11:2)
There were hundreds of Christian writings during the first and second centuries. Which New Testament writings would become official was not fully decided until about 400 C.E.
Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit was guiding the early church (and is guiding the church today) to make the correct choices about things like:
• The Holy Trinity (which is also only hinted at in the Bible)
• Going to church on Sunday instead of Saturday (which is actually directly against one of the Ten Commandments)
• The Communion of Saints
• Which writings include in the New Testament?
Things that are even more modern like
• Slavery is bad. Slavery is never declared evil in the Bible. This was one of the justifications for slavery in the Confederate States.
• Democracy is good. The Bible states that either God should be the leader of the nation like Israel before the kings or kings should be the leader, ';Give to Caesar that which is Caesar's.'; This was talked about a lot during the American Revolution.
This second source of doctrine is called Apostolic Tradition.
Do Christians who do not allow the continuing guiding force of the Holy Spirit to make their beliefs more and more perfect, still endorse slavery as Colossians 3:22 commands, ';Slaves, obey your human masters in everything';?
For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, sections 80 and following: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1s…
With love in Christ.
The Catholic doctrine is not false. Au contraire, my fine friend, it is the Catholic church that is going to save the world, including your sorry butt. When all is said and done, we could be fast friends.
I can never understand how other Christians who claim to love Christ hate their own brothers in Christ.
Christ, this I know, loves me. It goes deep, and He has never ever steered me wrong. If I end up in a place I shouldn't be, it is because I was the one who strayed from Him and His most wonderful church on this planet Earth.
Do not let hatred cloud your view of the one true thing in this life.
Let me guess, you are demonstrating eisegesis to demonstrate the absurdity of such practice. Or perhaps you have no training in biblical exegesis and the Scriptures are confounding your judgment. Perhaps theological concepts are beyond your intellectual ability.
Just a suggestion, try using all of Scriptures instead of proof texting to prove your ridiculous assumptions. Use a little scholarship. Perhaps you are blinded in understanding by a spirit of hatred and contention. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
If you would like more answers, consider asking around this site as well...
http://christianforums.com/forumdisplay.…
My goodness, aren't you impressive.
The Scriptural basis for all Catholic doctrines, including the ones for which you've chosen to cherry-pick Bible verses in an attempt to refute, can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. May I suggest that you take the time to look these up at your leisure from that resource? Scripture verses are heavily cross-referenced throughout the Catechism. I've provided the link below to save you the trouble of a Google search.
That is, if you're truly concerned about the Scriptural foundation for these doctrines (perhaps you're considering a conversion? I can't think of very many other legitimate reasons for Christians to grill other Christians like this.) However, if you're just posting this because you think Catholics have to answer to you, get in line and take a number. You're hardly the first to think you're an authority because you've read into the Bible what you want to find there.
To put it bluntly: If you think Catholic doctrines are ';false';, then by all means don't become Catholic. Tend to your own walk with Christ; we have no problem with answering to God, but this is one Catholic (and former Baptist) who doesn't feel obliged to ';reconcile'; anything to every prejudiced nitwit who comes along and demands it.
Great!!! Which monastery did you come from. Just joking. Impressive research.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. That each one of us is accountable to God Most High, Lord Jesus Christ, 1Peter 4:5.
False doctrines of Roman Catholics like:
1. confessing to a priest for forgiveness of sin (claiming John 20, yet those powers were given to the Apostles of Christ Jesus and can't be done by ordinary people other than the apostles).
2. Praying and asking the help of dead saints, even mary the wife of joseph (thus you're claiming the prayers of saints in Revelation yet it's all about they're asking God to avenge their persecutor, Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? ) On the other prayers, it is already written in a book , Revelation 5:6-8. The other prayers of saints is all about praising God yet did not even mentioned any prayers from them asking their kin, relatives or friends to be saved, Revelation 4:8.
3. believing in purgatory (refuted by Daniel 12:1-2; 1thessalonians 4:13-17)
4. praying to mary (refuted by Luke 1:30-51)
5. praying for the dead to be saved (refuted by Ecclesiastes 9:4-5; Romans 10:13; Romans 14:11-12)
6. and so many others like the partaking of the bread which is also refuted by (luke 22:19)
7. also baptism of infants(refuted by acts 8:37, that those who submit to baptism is only in obedience to the calling of God, meaning they're saved already before hand and how can an infant can know the Savior Jesus Christ?)
Besides, when apostle Paul still alive he admonished each one to pray without ceasing? 1Thessalonians 5:16-18, and yet how can he asked those already been dead for so long to pray without ceasing? Can you show any verses in the Holy Words of God telling the dead one to pray for their relative that still on earth?
Luk 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
This is a classic example of a dead one praying and asking favor for his relatives , brothers that he knows will not able to make if no one will tell them. but did you noticed the answer of father abraham? in verse 29-31?Roman Ctholics: how would you reconcile these verses to your many false doctrines?
amen it is about the lord jesus christ not a religion or set of beliefs.Roman Ctholics: how would you reconcile these verses to your many false doctrines?
You underestimate the detailed theological arguments that the Roman church have put forward to support their heresies. Waste of time discussing them.
Don't rag on the catholics, their beliefs are just as rational as yours are.
Boy oh Boy where do I start
1/ Acts 1:15-26 - the first thing Peter does after Jesus ascends into heaven is implement apostolic succession. Matthias is ordained with full apostolic authority. Only the Catholic Church can demonstrate an unbroken apostolic lineage to the apostles in union with Peter through the sacrament of ordination and thereby claim to teach with Christ's own authority
Acts 6:6 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority has transferred beyond the original twelve apostles as the Church has grown.
Acts 9:17-19 - even Paul, who was directly chosen by Christ, only becomes a minister after the laying on of hands by a bishop. This is a powerful proof-text for the necessity of sacramental ordination in order to be a legitimate successor of the apostles.
Acts 13:3 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority must come from a Catholic bishop.
Acts 14:23 - the apostles and newly-ordained men appointed elders to have authority throughout the Church
2 Tim. 2:2 - this verse shows God's intention is to transfer authority to successors (here, Paul to Timothy to 3rd to 4th generation). It goes beyond the death of the apostles.
2/ God is the God of the living not the dead. The saints who have gone before us are alive in heaven
Eph. 3:14-15- we are all one family (';Catholic';) in heaven and on earth, united together, as children of the Father, through Jesus Christ. Our brothers and sisters who have gone to heaven before us are not a different family. We are one and the same family. This is why, in the Apostles Creed, we profess a belief in the ';communion of saints.'; There cannot be a ';communion'; if there is no union. Loving beings, whether on earth or in heaven, are concerned for other beings, and this concern is reflected spiritually through prayers for one another.
Rom. 8:35-39 - therefore, death does not separate the family of God and the love of Christ. We are still united with each other, even beyond death.
Matt. 17:3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30 - Jesus converses with ';deceased'; Moses and Elijah. They are more alive than the saints on earth.
Matt. 22:32; Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead. The living on earth and in heaven are one family.
Luke 15:7,10 – if the angels and saints experience joy in heaven over our repentance, then they are still connected to us and are aware of our behavior.
3/ Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.
Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, ';be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.'; We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.
Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.
Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.
Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God's graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.
The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.
1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for ';suffer loss'; in the Greek is ';zemiothesetai.'; The root word is ';zemioo'; which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).
1 Cor. 3:15 – further, Paul writes “he himself will be saved, ';but only'; (or “yet so”) as through fire.” “He will be saved” in the Greek is “sothesetai” (which means eternal salvation). The phrase ';but only'; (or “yet so”) in the Greek is ';houtos'; which means ';in the same manner.'; This means that man is both eternally rewarded and eternally saved in the same manner by fire.
1 Cor. 3:13 - when Paul writes about God revealing the quality of each man's work by fire and purifying him, this purification relates to his sins (not just his good works). Protestants, in attempting to disprove the reality of purgatory, argue that Paul was only writing about rewarding good works, and not punishing sins (because punishing and purifying a man from sins would be admitting that there is a purgatory).
4/ Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. ';This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to his death';; it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:
Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother's heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: ';Woman, behold your son.';
The Gospel reveals to us how Mary prays and intercedes in faith. At Cana, the mother of Jesus asks her son for the needs of a wedding feast; this is the sign of another feast - that of the wedding of the Lamb where he gives his body and blood at the request of the Church, his Bride. It is at the hour of the New Covenant, at the foot of the cross, that Mary is heard as the Woman, the new Eve, the true ';Mother of all the living.';
5/ already taken care of
6/
I'm not done yet
Let's say the Lords Prayer that you might spend your time more productively
Your protests invoke a false doctrine called ';sola scriptura'; which is not biblical.
1. Yes those powers were given to the Apostles. Where in the Bible does it tell us that it ended with the Apostles? Why would Christ give something as important as that to only 12 people, and then have that power fade out with their deaths? They also had the power to baptize, and yet others baptize today and you have no problem with that. The Holy Spirit was ONLY given to the Apostles as well, would you say that ended with their deaths as well? You have no basis for choosing some things the Apostles were given and did as still being valid today and discarding other things that don't fit you beliefs.
Whenever Christ mentions the authority to ';loose and bind'; it is also the only time he mentions the Church. This means that power was given to Peter (first) and the Apostles, in conjunction with their alignment with the Church Christ established.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/confess…
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/primacy…
2. So? What it tells us is that Saints are in heaven and they are praising God. Paul tells us that intercessory prayer is good and pleasing to God. Mary and the Saints are not dead, they have salvation and eternal life in Christ. Asking any member of the Body of Christ to pray for us is ';pleasing to God.'; It does not say that only the prayers of the sinful living on earth are pleasing, it does not differentiate in the Bible. We know that the disciples of Christ and his Mother Mary, must be in heaven with him. They are one with us in Christ and therefore, can pray for us. It makes perfect sense.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/blessed…
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/saints.…
3. It says ';many of those'; who sleep in the earth...not that
ALL will sleep in the earth. When the time of tribulation begins, those who die will sleep until Christ comes again. But we know that others did not. Christ descended into hell and released the souls who had awaited him. Obviously they were not ';asleep in the earth.';
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/purgato…
4. Luke 1:30-51 does not refute praying to Mary. I can't even imagine why you think it does.
5. We don't pray for the dead to be saved. They cannot be saved. But we do pray for the dead who ARE saved, but in purgatory, that their time in purgatory will be less. All souls in purgatory are already saved. This is and always has been the teaching of the Church. So you are not telling us anything we didn't already know.
6. Wrong again in your interpretation of Luke 22:19.
7. Right, when an adult is baptized they must proclaim belief. When an infant is baptized, their promise is made by their parents on their behalf and the grace of baptism is conferred through the parents to the infant. When the child is old enough he/she can make a decision to follow Christ or not. During the Acts of the Apostles, all the ';new converts to Christianity'; were adults because it was a new faith. There were no babies born into Christian families yet. But we do know households were baptized, and certainly this included children. Additionally, we know the early Christians practiced infant baptism, certainly they knew what to do since they had been taught by the Apostles directly. One more thing, Paul compares baptism to circumcision. Infants were brought into the covenant the Jewish people had with God and the sign was circumcision. This was ordered by God. Any man who converted to the Jewish faith had to proclaim the faith and be circumcised, but obviously infants didn't. Paul says that baptism replaces circumcision. God required infants to be circumcized, so it stands to reason that infants should be baptized and brought into the new covenant. Plus, no where in the Bible is the baptizing of infants forbidden.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/baptism…
%26lt;%26lt;Can you show any verses in the Holy Words of God telling the dead one to pray for their relative that still on earth?%26gt;%26gt;
Can you show any verses that say those who have gone before us and are alive in Christ, cannot pray for us? John 3:16 says ';For whosoever believes in me will not die, but have eternal life.'; Those who believe in him have eternal life, why do you say they do not? Why do you say they are dead?
All of your ';protests'; are classic, old and successfully refuted over and over by the Catholic Church.
One question at a time. I do not have time to read a book Chris!
You will find ALL your answers here:http://www.cwo.com/~pentrack/catholic/ap…
Please remember that the Bible remains a Catholic Holy Book, compiled, written, and certified by the Catholic Church, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and reflecting only authentic Catholic beliefs and practices.
Anyone who attempts to interpret it in any other way is simply mistaken.
http://douglawrence.wordpress.com/
I'm not clear on the purpose of your long argument.
Was your purpose to show us your superior knowledge of the scriptures?
Was it an attempt to put down your brothers and sisters in Christ?
Was it offered in an attempt to change the minds of those you are attacking?
I recognize your ability to search the scriptures and to type. I understand that you feel strongly enough about this to argue, but I do not feel the Love of Christ in your words.
If you do not love...........
1. Confession
Some claim that confessing to a priest is not biblical. In John 20, we read of Christ appearing to the disciples on Easter Sunday. He breathed on the apostles giving them the authority to forgive, and not to forgive. This means they had to hear the sins in order to forgive/not forgive. Jesus then says “as the Father has sent me, so I send you”. This means the apostles are to continue Christ’s mission, the essence of which is the forgiveness of sins. In 2 Corinthians, St. Paul describes the apostles as ambassadors of Christ’s work of reconciliation. In the Epistle of James we read that the presbyters (priests) are called to pray for the sick and forgive their sins. Why are priests called to perform this task? Obviously, the priests have an authority that ordinary Christians do not.
It is clear that Christ gave the apostles the power to forgive sins.
The Sacrament of Reconciliation is one of the seven sacraments Christ gave his church. The Sacrament of Reconciliation is also known as the Sacrament of Penance or Confession. This sacrament can set us free from our sins, and from the burden of guilt that comes along with our sins. Through the Sacrament of Reconciliation – confession – we are brought back into union with God. Our sins separate and damage our relationship with our Lord, and it is through this most powerful sacrament that our relationship with the Lord is repaired and strengthened. Through the Sacrament of Reconciliation we can walk more closely with the Lord once again, without the burden of our sins weighing us down and distancing our relationship with God.
Some ask why Catholics confess to a priest rather than just going straight to God. Some claim that confessing to a priest is not biblical. But that is not true.
We confess to a priest because that is the way Jesus instigated the sacrament. It is at his command that we confess to one another. When we sin against the Father our sins also affect our Christian family. Confessing sins to a priest is something that was a universal practice and never debated in the Early Church.
Jesus himself was able to heal not only the physically sick, but the spiritually sick as well. Christ had the power to forgive sins (see Matthew 9:1-8; Mark 2:5-12).
He passed on that power to forgive sins in his name to his Apostles.
';Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again, I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.'; (Matthew 18:18-19)
';Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I sent you.'; And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, ';Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.'; (John 20:21-23)
Jesus entrusted his Church with the power of forgiving sins through this most wonderful sacrament. The priest is simply the one who acts in persona Christi (in the person of Christ) in the confessional, but it is our Lord who forgives our sins. The priest grants absolution (sets us free from our sins) using the power Jesus entrusted to his Church. It is through Christ, however, that our sins are forgiven.
St. Paul tells us, ';And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us.'; (2 Corinthians 5: 18-20)
Does this mean that we shouldn’t speak and pray directly to God and express sorrow for our sins? Not at all! In fact for daily faults that is exactly what we should be doing. But for more serious offenses, for grave and mortal sins, we must repent and confess through the Sacrament of Reconciliation because that is what Christ commands us to do.
Reconciliation (also known as Confession and Penance): Penance is a Sacrament in which the sins committed after Baptism are forgiven.
Biblical references: Matt 9:2-8; Jn 20:22-23; 2 Cor 5:17-20; James 5:13-16;
Matt 18:18; 1 Jn 5:16
2.Intersession of Saints
The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.
Thus in Psalm 103, we pray, ';Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!'; (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalm 148 we pray, ';Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!'; (Ps. 148:1-2)
Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In Revelation, John sees that ';the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, eac
You really should break this up into separate questions. I would like to give you detailed answers but Y!A now limits the lengths of our answers.
In addition to the many good biblical references addressed in other answers, the Catholic Church does not use Holy Scripture as the only basis of doctrine. It could not. The early Catholic church existed before and during the time that the New Testament was written.
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. (John 16:12-13)
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. (2 Thessalonians 2:15)
We instruct you, brothers, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus Christ,to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us. (2 Thessalonians 3:6)
I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you. (1 Corinthians 11:2)
There were hundreds of Christian writings during the first and second centuries. Which New Testament writings would become official was not fully decided until about 400 C.E.
Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit was guiding the early church (and is guiding the church today) to make the correct choices about things like:
• The Holy Trinity (which is also only hinted at in the Bible)
• Going to church on Sunday instead of Saturday (which is actually directly against one of the Ten Commandments)
• The Communion of Saints
• Which writings include in the New Testament?
Things that are even more modern like
• Slavery is bad. Slavery is never declared evil in the Bible. This was one of the justifications for slavery in the Confederate States.
• Democracy is good. The Bible states that either God should be the leader of the nation like Israel before the kings or kings should be the leader, ';Give to Caesar that which is Caesar's.'; This was talked about a lot during the American Revolution.
This second source of doctrine is called Apostolic Tradition.
Do Christians who do not allow the continuing guiding force of the Holy Spirit to make their beliefs more and more perfect, still endorse slavery as Colossians 3:22 commands, ';Slaves, obey your human masters in everything';?
For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, sections 80 and following: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1s…
With love in Christ.
The Catholic doctrine is not false. Au contraire, my fine friend, it is the Catholic church that is going to save the world, including your sorry butt. When all is said and done, we could be fast friends.
I can never understand how other Christians who claim to love Christ hate their own brothers in Christ.
Christ, this I know, loves me. It goes deep, and He has never ever steered me wrong. If I end up in a place I shouldn't be, it is because I was the one who strayed from Him and His most wonderful church on this planet Earth.
Do not let hatred cloud your view of the one true thing in this life.
Let me guess, you are demonstrating eisegesis to demonstrate the absurdity of such practice. Or perhaps you have no training in biblical exegesis and the Scriptures are confounding your judgment. Perhaps theological concepts are beyond your intellectual ability.
Just a suggestion, try using all of Scriptures instead of proof texting to prove your ridiculous assumptions. Use a little scholarship. Perhaps you are blinded in understanding by a spirit of hatred and contention. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
If you would like more answers, consider asking around this site as well...
http://christianforums.com/forumdisplay.…
My goodness, aren't you impressive.
The Scriptural basis for all Catholic doctrines, including the ones for which you've chosen to cherry-pick Bible verses in an attempt to refute, can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. May I suggest that you take the time to look these up at your leisure from that resource? Scripture verses are heavily cross-referenced throughout the Catechism. I've provided the link below to save you the trouble of a Google search.
That is, if you're truly concerned about the Scriptural foundation for these doctrines (perhaps you're considering a conversion? I can't think of very many other legitimate reasons for Christians to grill other Christians like this.) However, if you're just posting this because you think Catholics have to answer to you, get in line and take a number. You're hardly the first to think you're an authority because you've read into the Bible what you want to find there.
To put it bluntly: If you think Catholic doctrines are ';false';, then by all means don't become Catholic. Tend to your own walk with Christ; we have no problem with answering to God, but this is one Catholic (and former Baptist) who doesn't feel obliged to ';reconcile'; anything to every prejudiced nitwit who comes along and demands it.
Great!!! Which monastery did you come from. Just joking. Impressive research.
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